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229 points
Today our host cancelled a place we booked 6 month ago with zero communication, at time of check-in.

We landed at our destination and ready to check into our Airbnb that we booked almost 6 month ago, for an entire month.

The airbnb is managed by a company, who I assume manages the entire building.

The host promptly tells us it's no longer available, and that we should accept their offer of either refund or another listing that's in a completely different location, with no picture or reviews, but promised that it's "similar"

Of course, being hesitant, we said no thanks, we're happy with just a refund.

They proceeds to tells us to contact airbnb, and then ghosts us.

We open a ticket with Airbnb, calls them, and they proceed to give us the run around and tell us to just book another stay.

So what else are we going to do? be homeless for a night in foreign city?

So of course we try to book, except it's last minute and the only listings available are the once you must contact the hosts first.

Good thing we arrived at 11am and not 6pm. or we'd be literally f*cked for the night.

Why am I complaining?

Airbnb, you should do better.

I am a startup founder, I understand these types of situations has probably zero affect on your bottom line. So you probably never prioritized the need to spend engineering time "fixing" it.

You also probably look at your metrics and say, well these situations happen to <1% of our overall bookings, it's not a problem.

But PG says, the best startups are the ones who solve intense immediate pain for a small number of people.

Well, my confidence in you is absolutely shaken, and now I'm not so sure your position in the space is so infallible anymore. Because eventually this will happen often enough that "the small number of users with intense pain" will give arise to a newer and better version of you, and you will be legacy.

In the end, we booked another place last minute, had to spend 2x the amount and received a refund (well let's see in 10 days).

If I was in a much lesser able financial situation, I might not have been able to float a few thousands of dollars on my credit card, and may have literally ended up homeless.


This is a common scam - company rents you a property they don't own or have any right to. When you show up you're told that there's a problem of some sort and you're told you can use another of their properties. In desperation you agree. When you get to the other property it'ss much, much worse than what you paid for and basically you're paying top dollar for an unrentable dive.

Airbnb knows about this scam but hasn't done anything to stop it.

Here's Joe Lycett on this exact scam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LhbOKQnhBU

Definitely, I've read many accounts of the same scam over the last 5 years, and AirBNB has done nothing.

First thought on reading that the "host" offered another place. I've read about this scam numerous times, and you are absolutely correct to refuse it, as the likely target would be a near-uninhabitable insect-infested hole, but without the option to cancel because you just "rebooked" within 24 hrs, after the refund time.

I once arrived in SV and we got to our AirBNB after midnight to find that the listing was nothing like what was described - it was literally 3 different bunks in different random rooms when we'd booked several rooms in a shared house. AirBNB did give us credit worth about half the cheapest single hotel room we could find, but only after arguing for an hour.

I'd previously had good experiences with AirBNB, but it seems seriously overrun with scammers at this point, and the executives just clearly don't get it, especially at the level of PG's "solve intense immediate pain for a small number of people". There's enough of it out there to generate a lot of bad publicity and it just goes ignored. Maybe they'll pay attention with their stock near a 5-year low and under half their 52week high, but I'd sooner short it than buy it.

wwkeyboard
This is a big problem in New Orleans, where short term rentals require a license. The hosts don't have that license so to keep the city from finding them they show a different unit and pull this switch.
toomuchtodo
Y’all keep learning the hard way that these unicorns are built without any concern towards these experiences. They don’t care, the rev keeps flowing. They only understand regulations and penalties. They will not improve these gaps on their own because it doesn’t move the needle.

No offense to you OP whatsoever. AirBnB is not a startup. It’s a public company with a $56B market cap that is optimizing for profit above all else, and your shitty experience unfortunately doesn’t matter to them. They won’t fix the problem until not doing so materially impacts their financials (or incurs regulatory wrath).

Stay at a hotel in the short term, push for more regulation in the long term. If this is innovation, ignore startup celebrities and start taking notes from Comcast.

smugma
The inverse of this is that in the early days, you’re getting amazing value while these unicorns burn through billions scaling up. Airbnb 5+ years ago have incredible value for money, as did Uber and more recently some of the eBike/scooter companies.
toomuchtodo
Enjoy the freebies, just recognize when it’s time to move on because the org is played out and everyone has cashed out.

(Also consider that the value you mention is occasionally driven by ZIRP monetary policy leading to VC capital infusions we may never see again at the scale previously seen; WeWork, Uber, etc)

VieEnCode
You might get some VC subsidised cheap rides or a lower cost stay. But zooming out, what is the wider effect on our economy of allocating billions of capital in the attempt to build virtual monopolies?

This money could and should be better spent elsewhere, on actual productive assets and activities, rather than pushing for digital rentiership.

imartin2k
True, I only had good experiences with Airbnb, but last time I used it was summer 2019. With the post-pandemic travel and remote work boom, as well as the tech market downturn, the risk for bad experiences likely has increased a lot.
johndhi
Weirdly, one time in Paris we thought this was happening to us, but they place they stuck us was in a completely awesome location - heart of the Latin Quarter and clearly pricier than what we had paid for.
DrFunke
My last Airbnb experience was six months ago. A room rented in an old Silverlake home. It was a superhost with dozens of rave reviews. The woman who owned the house was in her 80's. A few weeks in to my one month stay, she knocked on my door at 10PM and asked me to get ice for her at Whole Foods. When I declined she began screamed profanities, then proceeded to blast calypso jazz for a few hours, among other things.

She had some sort of dementia which is sad, but I could not comprehend how she had been a superhost with Airbnb for years. That is, until I left a review of my experience and Airbnb promptly deleted it. I'll stick to hotels from now on. As far as LA apartment hunting goes I still think I made it out unscathed.

Oh, also I started shorting $ABNB shortly after this experience and it's almost made the whole thing worth it.

Edit: It feels really good to finally tell someone about this. It was so bizarre I'm too embarrassed to tell friends or family.

jb1991
> I left a review of my experience and Airbnb promptly deleted it

That’s interesting. They can do that? On what grounds was it deleted?

DrFunke
I recall the wording being some sort of corporate-speak 'we've deemed this review not helpful to future guests' or something of the like. Sometimes I wonder how far I could have gotten taking Airbnb to small claims court. They misrepresented my stay, it was terrifying and I lost money.
zippergz
Not only can they do it, but they do it all day long. Many, many stories of deleted reviews out there. Check this thread for a start... https://www.hackerneue.com/item?id=34219422
encryptluks2
There is a certain class of people that will somehow call that an authentic experience and give them 5 stars. I think they need help, but there are quite a few out there.
DrFunke
I met a lot of those in New York. They conflate crime, nuisance, feeling unsafe with 'heh, classic new york'. They're almost always transplants from other states.
O__________O
AirBNB runs this scam all the time. Say AirBNB because they’re actively part of the scam in my opinion based dealing with similar situations and them intentionally not offering guests insurance, guarantees similar to those they offer hosts, have guest cancel policies, etc; even their current marketing to guest called “AirCover” to me intentionally misrepresents what they actually offer and they removed the clause about actually covering guest costs if a host cancels the booking.

Thought about starting simple AirBNB guest insurance company, but if it was successful, AirBNB would just offer it as a service and business would be dead within days.

If you’re going to book on AirBNB only use super hosts, since odds of them canceling a stay is significantly less, especially compared to new listings.

In my case, hosts cancelled the booking with less than 24-hours prior to the month long stay starting; Host messaged me via AirBNB’s system asking me to cancel it and saying they would refund me off platform (which I obviously didn’t do and is against AirBNB’s terms of service); AirBNB cancelled the stay for host; AirBNB told me to pay the host 3-4x more to rebook the stay, then when I told them that’s bait-and-switch and fraud, they told me to take them to arbitration; AirBNB allowed the host to relist the booking for 2-3 times more and rebook the stay; AirBNB refused to let me leave a review on the listing and/or post an automatic review saying my listing had been cancelled; they funds tied to the booking for the month long stay were paid upfront and not refunded in week after booking was cancelled; AirBNB made no effort to find a like or similar stay, they basically said using their website was identical to them helping find a stay; etc.

Do NOT trust AirBNB as a guest - always have a backup plan and funds available to cover it.

Nextgrid
FYI, AirBnb "insurance" and "guarantees" for hosts is just as bad, there's plenty of horror stories around it. Why commit fraud on one side of the marketplace if you can double-dip and screw both sides?
achempion
I think misconception here is expecting hotel experience from renting flats on private market.

AirBNB is not the one to blame here, this problem is extremely hard to solve and all you can do is minimize the risk by renting well vetted apartments from superhosts.

AirBNB left Russia and friends told me that private renting experience went downhill. You can't expect AirBNB to solve all problems and edge cases, only to minimize them. You should prepare to eventually get screwed anyways.

There are bunch of additional issues here, like having hidden cameras in your rented place. How you expect AirBNB to solve this?

They're charging very high premium for what they offer and this creating wrong expectations in the beginning that they will solve all sorts things for you if something goes wrong, but at the end you realize that you have to deal with it by yourself at 10pm when you arrive, in foreign country.

O__________O
AirBNB is knowingly violating their own terms and allowing hosts to intentionally do so too. Bait-and-switch is fraud and a criminal offense. AirBNB refuses to allow guests to set there own cancellation policies, allow hosts to agree to them manually/automatically, and enforce them on behalf of the guests like they do for host. AirBNB deletes blocks & deletes reviews.

Yes, AirBNB is possible to blame. US state attorney general should investigate them.

slackwaredragon
So what you're thinking is if the US AG gets involved with AirBNB all these issues will magically disappear? It sounds like what might be needed is different housing policies. Our area bans short term rentals period (AirBNB, Vrbo or even private) and the issues have decreased significantly. It's also freed up more housing in our area alleviating the housing crisis (a little).
HEmanZ
I have had a similar situation, but in mine the seller immediately re-listed the property at 4x the price I paid. Airbnb says they can’t do this, but they literally did, on the same account.

I had 3 terrible Airbnb scam experiences in 2022, so I’m never using them again.

(My most hilarious one was that a host with like 25 positive reviews, listing said they had a hot tub and shower on property. It turns out this meant that we could go her sisters house, a 30 minute drive away, and we could ask to use hers. We tried this and she told us to piss off. That was a fun one.)

blululu
That's cold. I once had one (managed by a large vacation rental company) where the hot tub was busted. Of course they knew about this prior to our arrival, but instead we had to find out the hard way after an 8 hour drive. Of course they offered us a $50 discount for the week. Somehow my negative review did not stick.
shmatt
I think the point here on how AirBnb isn't changing things because the money keeps flowing in, is that you continued to use them after getting scammed not once, but twice

The odds of getting scammed is probably 1:100 if not less, and if people keep using them the next time even when they're the 1%, they have nothing to worry about

spamizbad
If possible, I strongly recommend extended stay hotels.

I finally threw in the towel and switched back to hotels after our previous stay in Toronto that was a nightmare, which included:

* Claimed we had the whole house but actually there was a family living in the basement and the laundry room was shared

* Host had crudely typed out instructions and labels over everything in the place

* House rules were extremely strict and required us to clear snow

* Had a 10pm curfew (which we broke because we got in late exhausted)

* Place wasn't terribly clean despite a listing with a $250 cleaning fee

* Absolutely the worst bed I've ever slept in

* Check-out instructions included a list of chores that went above and beyond the usual asks (eg: throwing out trash)

It wasn't always like this, but I feel like the quality of hosts has gone way down. I'm guessing most of the good hosts moved on during the COVID years.

jimmydddd
Hotel user here. Never tried Airbnb. Are chores, curfews and cleaning fees common? Why would anyone use them? Are the savings that much?
danaris
Noting that I haven't traveled for the last few years (for obvious reasons)...

In many cases, the prices are noticeably better, but the two big other reasons are location and a unique experience.

The last time I traveled, it was to Europe (I'm US-based), where I visited France, Germany, and Switzerland. The AirBnB we had in Provins, France was amazing—it was basically just a shed in a backyard (far enough away from the house that no sound reached there), but it was very well-appointed, and right outside the window were chickens, and we were encouraged to just go take freshly-laid eggs for our breakfast.

When we stayed in a guest room in a German village near the border with France (I'm afraid I've forgotten the exact location), the host couple invited us down for drinks in the evening—we're not big drinkers, so we didn't take much, but the selection was (at least to our American eyes) amazing, and the company was just lovely.

On the other hand, our AirBnB in Switzerland was almost as bad as some of the horror stories being told here. The host couple was disinterested almost to the point of hostility, and they left us a very bad review on AirBnB afterward, for reasons I can no longer recall, after pressuring us to give them a perfect review. Even if the pandemic had not stopped our travel after that, this experience was enough that we were seriously, seriously reconsidering using AirBnB ever again.

And that's the thing: when you're planning a vacation, one bad experience can so easily overwhelm all the good experiences—especially when it comes to having a safe, clean, reliable place to sleep at night.

Are chores, curfews and cleaning fees common?

Chores and curfews, no (although they often have rules that you have to be "quiet" after a certain time). Cleaning fees, yes.

Why would anyone use them?

Honestly I can only think of two good reasons.

You want to stay somewhere really out of the way where there aren't any hotels.

Sometimes when you are 5 or more people it can be cheaper to rent one large apartment rather than 3+ hotel rooms.

I know sometimes people also use them if they're going to be staying for a several weeks and want a real kitchen, living room etc.

Other than that, I would never use Airbnb. And even in the cases where Airbnb would be useful, I would seriously consider booking with another company before using Airbnb.

Full disclosure. Never personally had a problem with AirBnb, but heard enough stories and know enough people who have.

marssaxman
> Why would anyone use them? Are the savings that much?

It's not about money, for me at least, but the experience. Hotels are generally boring, soulless, and isolated, whereas AirBnBs tend to be more like an actual home: comfortable, with personality, located in the place you are there to visit. You generally get access to a kitchen. A hotel is more convenient if you're just crashing somewhere for a night or two, but if you are trying to visit a place, and enjoy the time you spend living there, an AirBnB is better.

Spooky23
The only reasons I can see are for exotic locales (treehouse suspended over the rainforest etc) or if you have a large family.

If you have 3-4 kids, many hotels will require that you rent a second room. That usually makes the AirBNB cheaper.

lucasyvas
> Are the savings that much?

It's often more expensive. I don't understand it either.

anikom15
One reason is that you can do drugs.
toephu2
A bit OT: Airbnb reviews should be taken with a grain of salt. No one wants to leave a negative review with their real name and photo, that's why most Airbnb reviews are positive. I've stayed at a couple places with a 4.90+ rating but there were glaring issues. No one wanted to point it out in their review because they thought "the next guest would surely complain about it, plus why would I want to taint my own profile and start an argument online?" This is why I prefer hotels to Airbnb. I can search tripadvisor and/or google maps for real reviews.
romanhn
The one time I posted a negative review it was promptly taken down after the host complained. They then proceeded to submit a negative review of me (a personal attack really) that had no basis in fact and I had already provided Airbnb with proof earlier in order to get my money back. It was a huge PITA to take that review down. Grew very disillusioned with Airbnb after that, they really don't provide any protections against malicious hosts.
blululu
There is also the fact that hosts can take down negative reviews for a variety of dubious reasons. The fault here is entirely with Airbnb. The reviews are the only real information that you can use before booking (and yes you can discuss over messages but the UX flow doesn't really accommodate this in a meaningful way where both parties agreeing to terms before the booking is made). I recall Lyft used to send people out to inspect cars and give training before letting someone drive. Airbnb is just being cheap and lazy on this front.
Best airbnb I have ever stayed at had no reviews whatsoever. I had become so jaded from previous experience that I figured I may as well take a chance.

The place itself was fairly standard but the host was very professional and appreciative of the custom. Seems this is a lot to expect nowadays?

glitchc
Stop trusting shitty platforms that treat you like a product. Hotels have existed for a millenia and good hotels treat their customers very well. Of course it costs more, this is why. You essentially get what you pay for.
laweijfmvo
> Good thing we arrived at 11am and not 6pm. or we'd be literally f*cked for the night.

Was mostly suprprised to read this, as if they'd never even heard of hotels. Depending on the location, a hotel may or may not have been available, but there are shocking number of hotel rooms available on any given night in almost any location (U.S. in my exerience)

mumblemumble
Well, they were also planning to stay for a month. At least in my opinion, hotels are typically not a great choice for a stay of that duration, and extended stay hotels are often in locations that just don't work if you don't have a car.
jimmydddd
My impression with this comment was that OP seemed to be emphasizing that they had no place to stay that first night.
They’re fine for one night while you resolve the Airbnb problem though.
Yea, even if I was to stay at an AirBnB long term, I would be very careful with booking an AirBnB for the day I arrived. I've had enough experience where I was supposed to be at the hotel by 2pm and actually ended up at the hotel at 2 am. With hotels this is never a problem.
Nextgrid
Hotels don't cost much more when you account for all the various fees and unreliable service or unexpected state of the property.
drstewart
Try finding a hotel ~$1000/month in major European cities
Would you book an airbnb for a month without staying in it for a short stay first?
drstewart
I've done it many times, never really had an issue. You learn quickly how to identify ones that will work for you from the description, photos, and reviews.
HDThoreaun
I've had great experiences doing this.
Dylan16807
> Stop trusting shitty platforms that treat you like a product. Hotels have existed for a millenia and good hotels treat their customers very well.

Sure.

> Of course it costs more, this is why. You essentially get what you pay for.

What costs so much here is finding new accommodation at the last second. Airbnb isn't significantly cheaper than a hotel on average, from what I can find. It mainly has a lot more options to draw people in. So really, you're not getting what you pay for.

mardifoufs
Hotels have existed for millenia but work almost completely differently now. So there's no reason for them to be more reliable. Scammy hotels are extremely common, especially in touristic destinations. Hotel scams are an entire industry of their own, with fake review, ratings, price frauds...
smugma
Best Western, etc. have variety in quality but still pretty consistent overall with a floor on quality. If your shower is leaking, you’ll be able to get a new room. Maybe the hot tub is broken but that’s pretty rare and will probably get fixed within a day.
anikom15
A $40 guidebook and sticking with reputable brands will solve this problem.
cageface
The problem is that for longer stays the typical hotel room is a lot less comfortable than an Airbnb apartment or condo with more space and a kitchen and without weird hotel WiFi that often barely works at all.
akerl_
I'd take crappy wifi over the host literally being a scam and booking me a building that they do not own.
cageface
Maybe I’ve just gotten lucky but I’ve been staying in Airbnbs all over the world for ten years now and this hasn’t happened to me yet. Bad Wi-Fi is a dealbreaker for me because I work remote.
escapedmoose
The only time it seems reasonable to use AirBnb is when you’re traveling with a large group to a set destination; then you can rent a whole house and split up chores. Otherwise, you wind up paying just slightly less to stay in a place without service, meals, concierge etc usually far away from any attractions you might be interested in. I haven’t personally had any bad AirBnB experiences, but hotels have so many advantages and aren’t all that costly.
Beltalowda
> Of course it costs more, this is why. You essentially get what you pay for.

The pricing isn't that different. It's just a worse service.

- Can't open the damn window in >95% of hotels. It's often too warm.

- Noisy ventilation you can't turn off in a significant number.

- No way to prepare your own food. If I'm staying somewhere for a week (or longer) then I don't want to eat out every day.

- There's rarely decent desk to work at. That thing with 20cm depth and a height suitable for midgets does not count.

- There's rarely a decent sofa.

People don't choose AirBnB because it's cheaper. They choose it because it gives them a better service.

danaris
Victim-blaming isn't a good look, especially when the "shitty platform" is a multi-billion dollar company that can damn well afford to treat its customers better.
Hansenq
I had a similar experience where a host canceled on me a day before check-in for a 3 night stay. However, the host canceled over messages, not officially through Airbnb, and Airbnb support couldn't do anything until the host officially confirmed to Airbnb six hours later that they were cancelling (the message in the shared channel wasn't enough).

After getting the official cancellation, Airbnb offered a $100 coupon for my next booking and asked me to book another option that fit my criteria. They asked for some "must-have" and "nice-to-have" criteria but basically just did a search for me and couldn't book for me; I had to book myself. After calling them (Airbnb's phone support is actually quite responsive, which is awesome), I was able to up the coupon to $300. Luckily there were alternative listings available for the dates I found at a reasonable price so it ended up working out, but I wonder what would have happened if I had instead booked a very unique stay in a remote area with no alternatives nearby...

smugma
The flipside of this is some of my best foreign experiences have been in Airbnb’s and VRBO’s.

* A lake house in Washington that had a boat that I could row to get to my friends house on the other side (a few hundred yards away).

* A cute apartment in the center of Bologna that had a secret bedroom behind a bookcase (perfect for young children!)

* a beautiful and large 3 bedroom in Knightsbridge for about the cost of a nice hotel (£500/nt). Went here after the first Airbnb had cockroaches (the owner came and met me and gave a full refund)

* bright and stylish 2 bedroom apartment in Palermo in Buenos Aires

Etc. when going on a trip with a large family or a set of friends, there are huge advantages to having a house/apartment to stay in. That said, I’ve mostly lost faith in Airbnb. Went to Banff with a group of 6 and instead of an Airbnb we found a hotel/Bnb that had 1 and 2 bedroom cabins. We were confident we weren’t going to get stuffed and that was worth more than any potential upside of all being in one place or a hot tub that may or may not be working.

xtracto
I've had good experiences with AirBnB I several countries as well. VRBO was trash for me, also with last min cancellations and the corresponding company inaction.

But really, I expect to be let down by airbnb at any point, and always plan for a hotel as plan B . Unregulated services have never been dependable in my experience .

blululu
This sounds about right. I once had an experience just like yours where they did a switch up the day I landed for a month long stay. Or the several times that half the features don't work properly (like no wifi, or the 'kitchen' had no sink, or the front door had no lock!), or the two times when the entire place was is not quite the entire place... You take your life into your hands when you book with Airbnb. By the numbers I have had better luck using Craigslist than Airbnb (which is surprising, but maybe Airbnb automates enough that scammers can get by while Craigslist lets you run proper due diligence).

I'm just going to post a link to Paul Graham's bragging about Airbnb since this is his website and he backed Airbnb from the start, and I would like to think that someone around YC would have enough pride to fix this mess:

http://www.paulgraham.com/airbnbs.html

karmakaze
Although AirBnB operates a two-sided market hosts and renters, they only care about the hosts. Every interaction I've had with AirBnB is always in favor of the host and there's really no customer service for guests. I called over several days to resolve an issue with 'ambassadors' who are volunteers with no authority. The worst one was booking one for 30 days, getting to it late (after midnight) seeing that it was completely inappropriate. AirBnB has a completely different policy for long-term rentals and there was no recourse and the host knew it from the first discussion they knew where they stood.

Now I just book hotels--you know what to expect and get what you pay for.

zebnyc
Another airbnb scam story: Several years back, I booked a place on Airbnb (thankfully it was just for 1 night), turned up at the provided address and had was not able to enter the premises. Contacted host and was told it was at a different address. I had to catch another cab to get there. Turns out the host was a renter and was illegally subletting on Airbnb. When I reported this to Airbnb and left a negative review, my review was removed within a couple of days. Airbnb knows which side of the bread is buttered.
Salgat
We found bed bugs and the best AirBNB would do is cancel and give us a $70 airbnb credit. The owner never answered our calls. Additionally they banned us for 2 days from Airbnb to quarantine but told us we should go to a hotel. It was a nightmare and cleaning all our clothes and luggage while finding a new place at midnight was very stressful.
csharpminor
Same situation: AirBnb bedbugs ruined our family vacation. They gave us a partial refund and paid for a night in a hotel but didn't cover the rest of our stay.

We were staying in a super touristy area during peak season, and the last minute hotel cost us $2000+ more than we had budgeted for the trip.

The host was completely non-responsive and our polite but negative review was removed by AirBnb. None of us have used AirBnb since.

I had something similar happen to me a few years ago where we booked in an emergency but the place was under construction without us being informed, and neither my wife or I could stomach it. We got another airbnb and got our refund in a few days amicably. It didn't really bother me personally, because I understood there were multiple parties involved.

It is a difficult problem. Hosts need to be able to cancel for extreme situations, such as damage to the unit, or some other emergency. Realistically, the vast majority of people who can afford an airbnb can float for an alternative place for a few days, although especially on longer stays, that might not be the case. There should at least be a priority routing inside airbnb customer service to immediately escalate to a supervisor and resolve the situation via an alternative booking, if someone comes back and says "I have nowhere else to go". It sounds like you did not get to that point to find out if they have that, but I can see how you felt like you were in an unstable situation.

It's hard for me to draw a line on what is a reasonable expectation here, but I guess they should try to provide immediate funds for everyone. Since at least a subset of people will not find their current process reasonable, and when that happens, they will find it extremely distasteful.

YeBanKo
If you showed up and there was a construction going on it most likely was a scam. Very common on Airbnb unfortunately. And there aren’t that many parties involved, just you and scammers, and, of course, Airbnb, but this is when they really become “we are just a marketplace”.
No, it was an emergency booking because of fires, and I think they just didn't think of it because there was some rather frenetic back and forth to get it booked. The work was painting going on outside, but it blocked the balcony. I wouldn't default to most problems on airbnb are scams. It seems too cynical to me given my experiences and those of people I know who use it a lot, even if there are some known problems.
YeBanKo
I agree that not everything on Airbnb is scam and plenty of reasons to use it, still. Now painting outside maybe not an issue, but it depends. If they had a balcony with a view in a photo of a property and featured it in a description, but somehow forgot to mention anywhere that it is obstructed by a construction - it is “scamish”.
No view, just a bit claustrophobic without balcony access, and clear plastic along the wall covering the sliding doors making for a distinct "job site" atmosphere.
em-bee
the vast majority of people who can afford an airbnb can float for an alternative place for a few days

all the places i travelled to, airbnb had the cheapest offers. in one place where i could not get airbnb because hosts were not responsive (it was christmas, and i was booking on short notice) i ended up switching hotels twice before we found something in our budget range that was barely acceptable, while there were airbnb listings for full apartments in the same price-range.

zadler
If host cancels within a certain time of the booking, they should pay a fee. Its simple, they need to judge weather or not to list. But airbnb doesn’t want to do that because it would reduce their listings. Ergo, users just eat it.
They do, as I indicated below: https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/990
sagivo
Airbnb used to be a good deal, cheaper hotels and great experience. Now it's usually much more expensive than hotels, you need to obey crazy rules to stay a night, clean after yourself solve "escape the room" level puzzles just to find a key and hope you'll get a good review back.

Airbnb really made me appreciate hotels again.

> ...solve "escape the room" level puzzles just to find a key...

Been there a few times, once told on leaving there was a piece of string hanging from an open window and I should tie the key to it and then throw it inside.

qbasic_forever
What you experienced is a classic Airbnb scam where you book a place, the host cancels when you show up, and then the host tries to get you to go to another property. The host will have you pay them directly so Airbnb doesn't get a cut and they make more money. They're grifting off Airbnb as a funnel for clients to their illegal/shady short term rental. Make sure Airbnb knows you were told to book another property at checkin.
ghusto
I had some fun with it long ago (I think they were still a start-up then), then switched back to hotels once the novelty wore off.

It was obvious -- even back then -- that I'd eventually run into a _really_ bad time. These kinds of new businesses basically operate -- and get rich on -- an "all the benefits, none of the responsibilities" model, glossed over with good marketing ("we're disrupting ESTABLISHED_BUSINESS_MODEL_X, aren't the new possibilities exciting?!").

As others have mentioned, your bad experience doesn't effect their business (at least not yet). Kicking up a storm about some injustice in the hotel lobby however, effects the hotel's business, and the employee's work, which is why it rarely will escalated to a storm.

cuchoi
Once our host gave us the wrong key, had no way of getting us the correct one, and they just wanted to cancel the reservation. This was 9pm and there was curfew due to COVID restrictions, so we were not allowed to go outside the building. I had to beg for about 4 hours to the rude host so they do not cancel the reservation and to call a locksmith. Airbnb's answer was that it was all good because we were able to get in.
nevitablentropy
Had a very similar situation: at the airport getting on the plane and receive notification of reservation being cancelled for no reason. Airbnb offered us $50 credit to help book a new place the same day.

We ended spending more money to stay at a much worse place and the host had zero repercussions from it.

We stopped by the home while on the island and found that there were other folks staying there during our reserved dates.

lucasyvas
AirBnB is basically useless when the alternative of a decent hotel is available. I have used AirBnB a fair bit but I can count on one hand the number of times (twice) that an accommodation listed on their platform was superior to most other options:

1. An absolutely beautiful loft run by a sweet woman in Ubud, Bali. It was a killer location.

2. I have a very reactive dog, so ground floor guest house near a venue was a no brainer.

But I'd take a hotel at least 90% of the time when given the opportunity. I'm still totally surprised AirBnB has reached the ubiquity they have, when it feels like a niche business.

Any business that is effectively a middleman is potentially replaceable by a decentralized solution. I know lots of readers here aren't really "into that", but I'd take a guess that there also isn't much love for middlemen.

MrDunham
This is interesting and, possibly, they've become a victim of their own success.

Back in 2011 @bluehat and I started one of the first professional hacker houses in Silicon Valley (Palo Alto).

One of our competing hacker houses had somebody die at it (found out later it was of meningococcal meningitis - yay fun terrifying times). I believe we had multiple calls from Airbnb support to help absorb some of their guests.

I also distinctly remember multiple times where we had support contact us trying to help a guest who had a last-minute cancellation from someone else. But my data is super old… We shut that hacker house down around 2016 that was around the last time I had any of these kind of calls. I also haven't hosted in 5 years.

forgingahead
I used Airbnb a lot back when they first started (and I also was a younger man with more "flexible" expectations). Now that I'm older, I don't use them at all, I prefer the brand hotels with a front-desk, minimum level of service expectation, and plenty of places to complain and make noise if things are not up to snuff.

A big part has been life stage changes, but also I think there's been a decline in safety in many major cities, such that I just don't want to risk the crap-shoot of an Airbnb any more. Hotels are not perfect, but it's a known product compared to Airbnb listings.

The rise of professional airbnb renters have also lowered the quality quite a bit. When a lot of listing were for apartments that the renter used for themselves part of the year and rented on airbnb when they weren't there, you could be sure to have decent bedding, etc..

Instead in professional airbnbs, there's a race to the bottom with extremely bad mattresses, uncomfortable beds, heaters that don't work to save money.

Nextgrid
I don't think it's a decline in safety as much as a decline in Airbnb itself. Not only has it become bigger, which allows them to care less about screwing customers and be bolder at committing fraud and breaking various laws, but it becoming bigger means more bad actors (from slumlords to outright scammers) are now abusing the platform.
narrator
I have never had a good experience with Airbnb. It has always been a scam or really crappy. VRBO has been great however. Maybe My experience with AirBnb is just bad luck, or they do better on the super cheap end?
SergeAx
In a perfect world Airbnb should reimburse you 1-2 nights of stay in a hotel while looking for alternative place, and then retrospect that cost onto a first property owner. But this scheme opens up much more ways to scam Airbnb out of their money, that it will never happen.

I personally see Airbnb, Booking and other marketplaces as just a know-nothing intermediary, and treat them accordingly. For example, I always prefer to book directly after finding a property on a marketplace. Most of the time the price is the same or even the property may throw in a free breakfast of airport transfer.

coderintherye
The last part is the key problem. The host ghosted and never responded to anything after the booking confirmation. Showed up and no contact or way to get into the property. So decided to book another place while AirBnB sorted out the refund, but didn't have the necessary funds to rebook because the refunded funds would not be released until the next day (technically they said up to 4 days but in practice seems to be next day).
nullsense
Up to 4 days probably accounts for long weekends.
throw_m239339
> I am a startup founder, I understand these types of situations has probably zero affect on your bottom line. So you probably never prioritized the need to spend engineering time "fixing" it.

Airbnb is no longer a startup, it went public so it's a regular business. Airbnb owns no property and will always be biased in favor of the hosts. Guests don't matter, there will always be people who need an accommodation somewhere...

WiggleGuy
For companies like Airbnb, their frontline support often sucks.

However, a bit of sleuthing and you can sometimes find secret unadvertised support phone numbers they have that give premium support.

I found such a number for Airbnb (I don't remember what it was though, sorry) and they refunded me a $1.5k refund the frontline support refused to give me. And they did it on the spot.

I surmise these hidden support lines are for premium customers they actually care about.

braingenious
AirBNB makes money by facilitating scams like this. It’s a feature, not a bug.
zadler
When will there be a platform that protects the buyer from this kind of hassle? Food delivery apps are just as bad. They can turn up absolute rubbish to your door, and there seems to be no force in place pushing back so that they focus on doing a decent job… it’s like the app doesn’t even have that expectation of them. They just want more options on the platform.
ranedk
In India a superhost Airbnb is very costly; a lot more than a decent hotel room very often. In one of the cases the Airbnb was smelling of cigarettes and rotten food. Fortunately I was able to make a video of the entire shit and after a couple of follow-ups with Airbnb, got the refunds.

And after having similar and more issues with Airbnb, i look for a hotel room.

precommunicator
> Good thing we arrived at 11am and not 6pm. or we'd be literally f*cked for the night.

Well, idk, I've booked hotels and motels in many countries sometimes at 11:30pm, or just by showing up at similar times and asking if they have room available, and usually there is one.

And even if there isn't, I've never had the receptionist at a hotel refuse to help me find a different hotel with a room.
bozhark
AirBnB should blacklist hosts for actions like this
They do (or at least their TOS says they do), if there is not a very good reason (an emergency).

https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/990

creyes12345
Many years ago I had a two-week reservation at a nice looking Best Western. When I tried to check-in they told me the room was not available, but they had another hotel nearby where I could stay for the same rate. It was late in the day, so I felt I really had no choice but to take their offer. The other hotel was far overpriced for what I paid for that night. The next day I walked to the other hotels in the area. They all had empty rooms and they were all much better deals than what I had. So I cancelled the rest of my reservation and never looked back. To this day I avoid that hotel chain.
I would talk to an attorney. I have a hard time believing no law was violated here.

I bet there is class action potential here given the number of people just in this thread who say it has happened to them.

shagie
https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/2908

> Section 23 of these Terms contains an arbitration agreement and class action waiver that apply to all claims brought against Airbnb in the United States. Please read them carefully.

> 23.11 No Class Actions or Representative Proceedings. You and Airbnb acknowledge and agree that, to the fullest extent permitted by law, we are each waiving the right to participate as a plaintiff or class member in any purported class action lawsuit, class-wide arbitration, private attorney general action, or any other representative or consolidated proceeding. ...

Fair
tommoor
Same thing happened to me in London, this isn't even rare it happens all the time. Ended up booking into a hotel last minute, so of course expensive and you foot the bill, not Airbnb.
blululu
If it weren't for the arbitration clause you could sue for damages. Of course Airbnb could also sue the scammer but they seem to not care about the damage this this does to their customers or their brand.
mgiampapa
I've used Airbnb probably 15-20 times for stays between overnights and weeks over the last 5 years.

I've never had a bad experience. Not one... I've had some odd experiences like a host who really wanted to make us breakfast and chat, but none of these horror stories.

It's been a great platform for me, saved me thousands of dollars when traveling and I have met some exceptional people due to interactions with it.

xkcd1963
There are many flaws with airbnb customer services. Most obvious problem that they give hosts much more leverage than clients.
Nextgrid
Nothing will change until the government wakes up and starts defending consumer rights. It's a lost cause in the US but there's still a chance in Europe.
xkcd1963
Or we go for the competition
Nextgrid
Competition can't work if one side can operate at a loss near-indefinitely thanks to VC money.
xkcd1963
They will eventually run out though.
sergiotapia
Why do people even use Airbnb's when it's:

- a worse experience

- more expensive

- unreliable

Is it because it's "trendy"? I don't get it.

relyks
There are Airbnbs sometimes located in places where there is either limited or no hotel availability. I stayed in one once because that Airbnb was the nearest place to stay to get to the Hoh Rainforest (Olympic National Park). People also stay in Airbns to have "unique" experiences in remote locations or for a longer period of time than what would be possible in a hotel without having to need to sublease an apartment/house. I don't know why people use them for vacation when there are hotels available. The experience at a hotel is far superior.
qbasic_forever
It wasn't like that in the early days, especially pre-IPO and before Airbnb turned into a business for wannabe landlords. In like 2010 Airbnb was magical for exploring a city like San Francisco. I remember paying like 50 bucks a night to stay in someone's beautiful house in the heart of the mission district. Hosts back then were genuinely good people that wanted to help travellers. It was a couch surfing kind of vibe and community. Nowadays all of that magic is long gone, and it's way more expensive.
ipince
Well, I'd say it's because people that travel in groups can get a better deal by booking an Airbnb instead of booking multiple rooms in a hotel, and it also gives them the benefit of having shared space (living room) and a kitchen.

It also usually makes sense for longer stays, say a 30-day stay where the Airbnb's usually grant a ~20-30% discount, which makes them cheaper than a hotel.

Other than that, I agree there's little reason to choose an Airbnb over a hotel.

boplicity
A functioning kitchen is a necessity for some people -- and hard to come by in hotels. I have a very strong dislike of AirBnB, but for certain types of trips, they're hard to beat.
We host a small apartment. It is the same price as a hotel room in our city, and has a private yard and a full kitchen. It is in a residential neighborhood down a long driveway instead of on a busy street. It is a much better deal. If there is no value to the listing, you should definitely pass.

We are much cleaner and more reliable than any hotel I have ever stayed in, but I understand that no guest could know that beforehand given the problems with some hosts on the platform.

motoxpro
I guess for people here still remember the value proposition as being "cheaper than a hotel"

If I'm on vacation I want to relax in a house, not a hotel. Hotel's are for sleeping to me. I guess that's fine if you just get up and go do touristy things all day. Feels weird to me that people think of hotels and airbnbs as solving the same problem.

pajtai
You get your own space that's not a cookie cutter box, like a hotel. Also, you generally stay in a part of town that is residential and not filled with other hotels and business. When it goes well, it feels like you really get to know the town you're visiting.
shortcake27
More expensive depends on location and type of accomodation. In London you can easily get a room on Airbnb for £50. Vs well over £100 for a hotel (I just looked and this is still the case). This has been the case in every city I’ve ever visited. I’d prefer to stay in hotels, but they’re simply too expensive for solo travellers.
Nextgrid
Does the 50£ include cleaning fees and other bullshit?
shortcake27
That’s a good point, for a single night if you get stung with those it might work out the same cost. Usually I’m booking for 1-2 weeks so it’s negligible.
readthenotes1
i used them for 9 weeks last year in 3 separate stays.

Each apartment was exactly as advertised and considerably, like a third or less, cheaper than the least expensive *d hotel around. The hosts were responsive and I had no troubles.

My travel costs would have doubled if I had to stay at a hotel, possibly more since hotels typically don't have kitchens.

silisili
I keep wondering this myself. I've never used one because I just don't get the appeal. I assumed people used it because it was cheap, and I didn't mind paying more for a hotel...but then saw it's even more expensive than a hotel!

Hotels pamper you, clean your room and towels daily, often have food and alcohol, often have shuttles to take you around, great locations, etc. AirBNB has none of that. I have to be missing something?

macintux
> clean your room and towels daily

This seems to be increasingly not the case between the pandemic & low unemployment (and the long-term trend towards running laundry less frequently to save on water), but I've always preferred to not have them in my room while I'm there.

aurelianito
The appeal for me is that I prefer to have my own kitchen to prepare most of my own meals while traveling. Cannot do that in a hotel room.
I think several years back, AirBnb was cheaper than hotels (but they've gotten more expensive over time).
readthenotes1
The ones I was in last year were considerably cheaper than the hotels, other than the hotel rooms that were actually multi listed as Airbnb since there is a merging of those now...
zadler
It’s not really more expensive. Cheaper than a decent hotel usually. Way more hassle sure.
atestuser123
Mainly space, yard, privacy and especially useful if you have pets.
rosebay (dead)
petodo
This is when you move your business from AirBnB to Booking.com or other services.

Also always check reviews, it shows there how many guests host cancelled (unless they changed it since last year), so if you find even one cancellation ignore such place.

burnte
Don't AirBNB until they fix things. Hotels are cheaper and more reliable.
mdasen
I feel like this is a common trajectory for a lot of companies (Airbnb, Uber, etc.)

It starts off with cool intentions. Let's create a place where people can stay with other people - and chip in a little money. Instead of paying $150 for a hotel room, they get an air mattress for $20. It's a cool, couch-surfing kinda deal between people who want a cool experience.

Some time passes and someone starts thinking. What if we let them rent a whole place while the owner is away. The owner is going on vacation and it would be great to rent the place for a week and make $500 rather than letting it go to waste, right? That way you can go on vacation and a bit of it is paid for by renting out the place you won't be!

More time passes and more "good" ideas come. Travelers want a more professional experience with services like someone who has keys if they get locked out, someone to call if something goes wrong with the house and they need maintenance, etc. Likewise, the people offering space want cleaning fees because it's no longer a quirky site catering to people looking to have a cool experience, but also to every traveler who is looking for a bargain hotel - and is going to treat the property like a bargain hotel, not like a guest in someone else's home. It becomes a way for landlords or other property companies to make more money than they can with a long-term lease. Why rent an apartment for $2,500/mo when you can get $200/night ($6,000/mo potential) on Airbnb?

Well, you placate people by throwing cash at them. A host cancels? Your staff rebooks them at an amazing hotel in the area. A guest is messy? Throw some extra cash at the hosts. It's not your money. Nice Uncle VC is picking up the tab.

But then you're supposed to be getting to the stage where you can make money. The honeymoon is over. If you keep rebooking people in nice hotels at 2-3x what they're paying you, if you keep believing every sob story someone tells you about a place not being as advertised or a guest creating a mess, you're just going to keep bleeding money. You start instructing your support staff to be more skeptical of claims. Previously, it was always "we're so sorry, we'll deal with that immediately!" Now it becomes, "the host says that you checked in and until we hear back from them, there's nothing we can do."

It's not just Airbnb. The problem is that you start looking at the amount of money you're losing to various things and you want to tighten that up. How many customers do you think are just complaining about a cold food delivery or a room that doesn't live up to their expectations just so that they can get a discount?

In the beginning, you were something new and different. In the beginning, there weren't huge expectations. You were making something cool that could be really useful to people. Once the expectations became so high along with other people's money banking on those expectations, it becomes kinda difficult because the original, more limited scope isn't going to get those people the money they're expecting. Worse, even if you want to create a small and sustainable business, someone else will undoubtedly take the idea to its conclusion. Even if Airbnb didn't go this route, someone else would have and Airbnb might fade away.

And this happens with lots of things. Addictive social media? Well, if you don't do it, someone else will and then they'll stop using your site. Not only that risk, but your addictive competitor will now have so much more money so they can hire away your engineers and hire so many more engineers until you really can't keep up.

Even things like moderation policies end up here. Yep, you've worked hard to deal with things fairly and reasonably, but you can't spend an hour on every report and you've suspended someone that shouldn't have been. It starts out small with people who have reasonably similar expectations. Over time, a larger group might have more disparate and even competing expectations. Some even want to do things that benefit them at your expense - I bet I could grow my follower base if I got suspended for something innocent showing that the platform is biased against me! At the same time, there's pressure from advertisers to have a brand-safe environment while some users are trying to figure out exactly where the line is and maybe even push the line a bit. And all that was initially intended was a cool way to post messages to friends!

> But PG says, the best startups are the ones who solve intense immediate pain for a small number of people.

Not to nitpick a word in there, but it does say "startups", not "companies". I don't know if PG said startups, but you've paraphrased it as such. Startups might live and die by their reputation. People hear about how awesome Airbnb is in 2009 and it creates this great word of mouth - even problems are handled swiftly to everyone's satisfaction. It's the future. However, at some point their reputation is reasonably solidified and they're reasonably entrenched. Now they can act differently. Back in 2009, other startups might have fought for Airbnb's crown. Today, it's their market.

I think a big part of it is money - and not just on the company's end. Now property owners are looking how to maximize their money too. Can they work the Airbnb system to milk a few thousand more a year out of it? What might have started as happy guests having a cool experience are now guests looking to maximize as well - in part because they're now paying hotel-like prices with similar expectations. Not only that, if you get a reputation for being too easy, unscrupulous guests will try and figure out how to work the system to get more than they've paid for. And every industry has these problems, but with something like Airbnb, they're supposed to be a low-touch tech firm just taking a percentage for running some software, not a big company employing a lot of boots on the ground making sure things are what people are claiming. They're not looking to be Marriott with an army of workers.

Things can go from something somewhat nice and new to something where everyone starts looking closely at the bottom line. "Why am I renting out my spare bedroom so cheap?" "Why am I paying X when I'm not getting Y?" "Why am I accepting this report of a bad room with no evidence?"

I think this is why the Batman/Harvey Dent quote has so much sticking power: you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. And I'm not even saying it's the company's fault or anything. It's more just to note that at some point you start having to deal with the mess of reality. What starts with a lot of trust, hope, and optimism starts becoming a bit more actuarial. In some way, it has to become that way. If it doesn't, it's simply a target for bad actors. Or maybe this is just a cynical comment at the end of a long day and I'll feel silly for having written it tomorrow, but I do think there's something real about moving from the optimism stage to a more actuarial stage in a company's growth. At some point, you've gotten hit on the head and you create a rule and some people aren't going to like what that rule means. I remember AWS's S3 not charging for requests - and then someone created FUSE-mountable volumes backed by S3 generating incredible numbers of requests. At some point, any "unlimited" service gets limits - even if you just want the limit there so that a customer will email you why they need more and what they're doing. And I'm not calling companies evil or villains, but I do think that they do start looking at things a bit more like an insurance company would - with a bit more skepticism and a bit more of an eye toward the bottom line. That isn't necessarily a bad thing because businesses do have to make some hard decisions, but it certainly does change the feeling.

I'm really sorry that you had a bad experience. I hope that you're safe, healthy, and that Airbnb makes things right by you. I hope the rest of your vacation goes well.

spankalee
Sue them, or find a lawyer who's starting up a class-action.
nabeards
Would there be any benefit to an independent review site? Linking to the Airbnb listing, with unfiltered reviews? Just a thought.
smashed
Advertise a very nice apartment in a desirable location, then last minute redirect the guests to a slightly less desirable location but still "similar".

Good old bait and switch.

Besides issuing a prompt refund and hopefully banning the fraudulent host, what exactly is Airbnb supposed to do in such situation?

They operate a platform, not an hotel chain. They have nowhere to actually host you and are in no contractual agreement with the guest to actually get you a place to stay whatsoever. Buyer beware so they say?

Nextgrid
> Besides issuing a prompt refund and hopefully banning the fraudulent host, what exactly is Airbnb supposed to do in such situation?

They could take a deposit in advance from the host that is forfeited (and goes towards compensating the would-be guest) in case of a major problem. This would remove the financial incentive for bad actors.

Same can apply for delivery drivers, etc - if the law can't be enforced (or if the law doesn't cover this bad behaviour), you need an incentive to keep them honest.

Problem is, doing this would eat into the company's margin - bad actors still provide "supply" in this marketplace and as long as the actor isn't bad enough to land them in significant PR/regulatory trouble, they are actually still an asset to the company. Most people for example, would settle for this scam when stranded in a foreign location late at night, so in the end both the scammer and Airbnb benefits. In terms of food delivery, a dishonest driver nibbling on orders here and there is likely to go unnoticed for a long time and is better than throwing an error about no delivery drivers being available, and the occasional complaint for an outright-stolen order can be stonewalled as most people (even here!) don't seem to be aware that payment card chargebacks are a thing.

Weeding out most bad actors would mean that prices on the marketplace will rise as the downwards pressure from less scrupulous hosts (if not outright scammers) goes away, to a level where it's no longer competitive with hotels.

blululu
I doubt people would make these booking if they were fully aware of the risks. The fact that the product exposes its customers to glaring risks should be a serious issue and it is upsetting that the company is just throwing up their hands at the issue. Some thought: 1.) A refund doesn't make the customer whole. If there weren't an arbitration agreement then I would expect that a court would expect more than just a refund. There are travel expenses, there are last minute booking fees. The customer had reasonable expectations of having a place with a core set of features for a specified duration. They need that and airbnb should foot the bill (which is typically higher than just a refund due to the last minute nature of the problem). 2.) Banning scammers is not enough, airbnb should take legal action. As mentioned a court would find that this scam costs the customer and the platform a lot of money. Well Airbnb should make it a point to punish scammer and the courts are the proper medium to take action. 3.) They should audit listings. If someone is making ~$2-5k a month on a rental and airbnb is taking ~3% or ~$60-$150, they could easily afford to send someone out to visit the unit, check the boxes and write an official verified review.
InitialLastName
> Besides issuing a prompt refund and hopefully banning the fraudulent host, what exactly is Airbnb supposed to do in such situation?

I think the ask is that they do these things at a bare minimum; at the moment, it appears they do neither with any reliability.

shermablanca
+1. This is exactly why I haven’t booked from Airbnb in 5 years. I won’t consider coming back until this is fixed.
Did the reviews/ratings somehow fail? I only book with superhosts and it was always ok so far
Airbnb reviews are well known to be unreliable because negative reviews tend to be deleted for not providing enough details, not being factual etc...
vachina
Paying 17% premium for the privilege of being ghosted.
AviationAtom
Did you see where a host of hotels cancelled on their guests because a Taylor Swift concert was announced?
theGnuMe
Yeah this is a scam.
jb1991
Interesting that a post with 126 upvotes in less than an hour is not on the front page. I’ve noticed that often with YC companies that get negative press on HN.
We moderate HN less, not more, when YC or YC startups are the story. This is a long-established practice; in fact it's literally the first rule of HN moderation. You can read many years' worth of explanations about that: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu....

However, there has been a glut lately of stories using HN as customer-support-of-last-resort or generic-complaints-about-$company, and we've been hearing an increasing amount of community complaints and pushback about those. HN's standard mod practice is to downweight most such threads, because they're repetitive [1] and don't contain significant new information [2]. (That's not to say they aren't significant and important to the person in the given situation—of course they are—but that's not the same thing.)

When the story is about a YC-funded startup, these principles conflict. We recently decided to start downweighting them more, though, in the hope of addressing the community pushback about this. I've been posting about this recently in the context of Stripe threads, but the same points apply here too:

https://www.hackerneue.com/item?id=34282052

https://www.hackerneue.com/item?id=34190090

https://www.hackerneue.com/item?id=33745192

The upshot is that we're adjusting a bit to downweight this class of posts more in general because that's what the community reaction is telling us; and that means downweighting the YC-related posts in this class more as well (although still not as much as the non-YC-related posts).

[1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

[2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

jb1991
Thank you dang for the context, appreciate it.
achempion
Unfortunate situation, but the risk always exists for this type of deals. This is also why hotels charge you x3. Do not forget to scan your airbnb for hidden cameras as well.

How do you expect airbnb should handle this situation?

AirCover policy says that they will find a similar place (whatever it means) or do a refund.

To not risk getting homeless, I think you need to always plan in advance for what to do in case expectations are not met with your stay.

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