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I have a friend who worked in a company that got "not acquired" in a similar deal.

She didn't see a dime out of it, and was let off (together with a big chunk of people) within 6 months.


As this gets more common, I think it will eventually lead to startups having a hard time attracting talent with lucrative equity compensation. It will be interesting to see how long it takes until this catches on among employees, but I already wouldn't take any positions in startups with a significant payment in equity anymore. The chances are slim that this pays out anyways, but now even when you are successful, noone will stop some megacorp from just buying the product and key employees and leaving everyone else with their stake in the dust.
At my last job search I didn’t consider any equity based startups seriously because of this trend. It was already such a tenuous path as it stood, but now with the norm established it seems like it’s become impossible for a rank and file employee to get paid out.

I’m more curious how angel investors are being treated in these exits. If _they_ dry up the whole pipeline goes away

Investors with enough into the deal to fight it in court get enough to not fight it. Key employees needed by the 'not acquirer' get compensation sufficient to retain them, although increasingly much of this is under a deferred vesting arrangement to ensure they stay with the 'not acquirer'.

Non-essential employees and small investors without the incentive or pockets to fund a legal fight get offered as little as possible. This structure also provides lots of flexibility to the 'not acquirer' when it comes to paying off existing debts, leases, contracts, etc. Basically, this is the end of being an early employee or small angel investor potentially resulting in a lucrative payoff. You have to remain central and 'key' all the way through the 'not acquisition'. I expect smaller early stage investors will start demanding special terms to guarantee a certain level of payout in a 'not acquisition'. I also expect this to create some very unfortunate situations because an asset sale (as they used to be done), could be a useful and appropriate mechanism to preserve the products and some jobs of a failing (but not yet fully failed) company - which was better for customers and some employees than a complete smoking crater.

that is a great point. it’s one thing to occasionally rugpull employees, who are still at least paid for their services and robbed only of their EV on their options (i say “only”, though i find this increasingly common practice to be absolutely deplorable, to be clear). but how could investors possibly be happy with this becoming the new normal? will it get to the point where these sorts of faux acquisitions also involve paying out investors and only shafting employees? at that point you are only really even getting like a 20% discount over acquiring the company outright, which hardly seems worth it. which is to say that your point is very astute: the investors are definitely the linchpin here.
The company still got $20B of cash(?) in its books, it can pay dividends to its shareholders (investors) and they get their payment. The company can go down the drain afterwards. If it can still make money with its remaining assets that's only a nice small bonus.

So the only ones getting shafted are the employees.

I suppose the firm could simply roll the 20 billion into a long term asset. It’s not a big deal to anyone except employees if the asset never pays out. Departed employees would not be privy to how the money is eventually exited from the now shell company 20 years hence.
> will it get to the point where these sorts of faux acquisitions also involve paying out investors and only shafting employees?

Yes, correct

20% of 20b isn’t exactly loose change, even for a megacorp.
true, but given that recruiters take upward of 30% of first-year comp it starts to really flirt with being a wash. if the acquiree’s employees are truly that odious, the founders aren’t worth the price of admission. just look at the scale.ai guy: he is in wayyy over his head now, and if those billions mattered at all to zuck he would probably regret it, ex post.
The chance of rank and file employees getting anything has always been small now its smaller.
It's already happening. You need a good lawyer to read equity terms to make sure you aren't going to get rug pulled by a founder later on. Even so I still consider equity to generally be worth zero unless the founder is someone I trust fully, since there are so many ways for them to legally not give you anything.
The equity in almost all startups has already been a bait and switch for more than a decade. Most will refuse to answer you about % of equity share anyways, but if they did it's tiny tiny amounts, and in the end half the time it's up to the acquiring entity just how seriously they end up taking it. If you landed at an entity like Google (as I did from the place I was working 15+ years ago) you could be treated well. Elsewhere, not great.

During boom times it made more financial sense to go straight to a FAANG if you could.

If you ask me there has been a major shift into trying to make "startups" into just another form of corporation. It started years ago when I started seeing things like "Founder Engineer - 0.5% equity" in jobs here.
>As this gets more common

Boy, it would be so nice if a major correction were to drain these massive companies' warchests so that it doesn't become more common.

With the job market being in the state it is in, there will always be people wanting to take their chances.

Let's face it and accept that the golden days of people working in tech startup (and soon large companies) are over.

RIP 1980 - 2023.

LOL@Americans waking up.

I guess you'll have to face the music at some point.

Looking at GDP, the golden age is still right here.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?location...

/s

Different kind of gold raining down on us now though
You should have just bought gold
Though (very) unevenly distributed
Need this plotted against cumulative American debt lol
Can you say more about why mechanically she didn't get anything?

If you exercise your options you have real stock in the company, so I don't see how you can get shafted here.

Did investors do some sort of dividend cash out before employees were able to exercise their options? (Obviously shady, but more about investors/leadership being unethical than the deal structure).

Would love to know more about how this played out.

Multiple share classes are the norm even before the new acquisition types we see here. It’s extremely common in an acquisition for employee shares to be worth nothing while investor and founder shares are paid out.

But these new “acquisitions” aren’t even that. They are not acquisitions at all. They just hire the talent directly with perhaps an ip rights agreement thrown in as a fig leaf.

I'm well aware of dual class shares, but preferences are typically 1x, and none of the deals were for less than the amount raised, so they're not relevant here.

The fact that these are not really acquisitions doesn't change the fact that Groq the entity now has $20b.

Groq doesn't keep that money, it goes to VCs. They claim the company is "pivoting", not "selling" and avoid the payout trigger.
Money can't just "go" somewhere, it needs a reason first, at least for book-keeping. I mean, VCs can get their invested capital back but on top of that, how would that money be transfered? $20B is a lot and for sure the VCs will not just write an invoice of $18B for consulting services.
Hey, husband of that friend here, The bought company had huge debts to the investors (it is a startup, not tiny but small one, ran for several years) and after cashing those out from the purchase deal, the employees were left with shares that were worth 0$. (might be that the founders also grabbed some money out of that purchase, no one knows tho)

The employees of that bought company were given an incentive by the buying company to stay for a while and help tearing down and integrating their product into the buying company.

One could say shady, I'd say that it was just a bad deal.

Thanks for the details.

It's definitely true that common stock gets $0 if the acquisition price is <= (sum raised + debt).

That sort of sounds like the startup wasn't doing well, and the acquisition wasn't for a lot of money (relative to amount raised), which seems very different from these Groq/Windsurf situations.

There have been at least a half dozen of these deals in the past 1-2 years including Google “licensing” CharacterAI to pull their founders back into Google as valued employees.

In the deal mentioned above: my guess is that preferred class shareholders and common shares got paid out but the common shareholders had such a low payout that it rounded down to zero for most employees.

This can happen even in a regular acquisition because of the equity capital stack of who gets paid first. Investors typically require a 1x liquidation preference (they get their investment back first no matter what).

Liquidation preferences are typically 1x these days, so they only matter when companies are sold at fire sale prices where basically nobody is making any money.

The deals are all weird so it's hard to really know what's happening, but if Groq gets $20b, I don't see how common stock holders don't get paid.

Special dividend to priority class and retain the rest to grow the remaining sham company?

I've seen some discussion that paying out normal employees might look more like an acquisition on paper which they may want to avoid for ftc reasons. I've also seen some discussion that this is a quid pro quo to the trump family to get Nvidia back into China (jr. bought in at the September financing round..).

Lots of speculation in general, including why nvda chose to spend 20bil on this.

Do you actually know this is what happened?

Dividends to only one class seems crazy. I would be kind of shocked if that was legal.

No, I have no visibility. I'm saying speculation is rampant is all.

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