Absolutely agree this is silly and cities should be encouraging cycling.
> We want to encourage people to bike less and drive more
assuming you meant to flip this?
An e-bike that can even do 20mph comfortably is much closer to a moped than a bicycle, partly due to weight, and partly due to "ease of speed". Obviously a person can easily cycle 20mph, but it just isn't the kind of thing you do on in a crowded area. Very different when it is just a throttle. So grouping them in with bikes, rather than mopeds or similar, is just extremely silly
There are pedal assist ebikes hitting the market that are nearly indistinguishable from a road bicycle and weigh as much as a kitted out steel touring bike (i.e. ~35-40 lbs) and can comfortably do 20 mph.[0] I don't really think that's treading any sort of line of being close to a moped.
Also there are absolutely people riding analog bikes capable of having an average cadence of 15-20 mph who ride with reckless abandon on crowded mixed-used paths in cities - so maybe you don't do that, but there's a pretty large subset of cyclists who are doing that because biking is more of a sport activity than strictly pragmatic form of transportation. Bad bike path etiquette extends beyond ebikes
[0] ride1up is one brand making such bikes
Where I live I find cyclists to be the most reckless participants in traffic, way more than drivers and pedestrians. Cyclists never have to take even the most basic course even just in school to learn legislation or general rules. They always act like they own the road whether on the sidewalk among pedestrians, or on the street among cars. E-bikes just made this worse because everyone can cycle above their natural capabilities now.
But it's also clear that the "blast radius" of a cyclist is usually very limited compared to the damage a car can cause even with banal actions like opening a door at the wrong time. So I understand why their behavior is tolerated compared to when drivers to the same.
They should be encouraging cycling, but not by making red lights a free-for-all.
I once lived on the corner of a pretty busy cycling street by the beach in Florida, with a stoplight in the intersection outside my window. We had these gigantic "trains" of cyclists regularly just blowing straight through red lights, because there typically wasn't a lot of traffic coming from the cross street. I remember one occasion where a car was entering the intersection from the cross street (car had the green light, major street had the red), and a huge train of about 20 bicycles at full speed ran the red light and slammed into the side of the car with a loud "thump thump thump thump thump thump..." Total wreckage. Busted bicycles all over the street after they fucked up, and the cyclists had the nerve to be irate. If I hadn't run out and started recording, the car driver probably would have been assaulted by these raging hotheads.
These guys need to obey traffic laws, too.
More curves, lower limits, more stops. Cities that implement more bike-friendly and pedestrian-friendly design are safer for everyone, cars included.
I've seen many road bikes do exactly this on a crowded bike path of pedestrians, scooters, and e-bikes. I've also seen e-bikes wait patiently to pass and slow down when there's traffic. I think proclaiming that e-bike riders are worse than road bike riders is patently false.
So it's not really an "e-bike" problem. It's really a speed problem.
Probably worth noting at this point that the ultimate beneficiaries are people ordering food on various delivery services. In my experience, these overpowered bikes are almost exclusively used by delivery drivers.
I rarely order online (too much trash, too many hostile UX patterns of sneaking in fees disguised as "taxes" etc.), but when I do, I'd really prefer the delivery person would not risk their and others' lives running red lights all the way.
All else being equal, yes. But NYC drivers are exceptionally skilled relative to the rest of the country. They're nuts in a lot of ways, but they're also far more respectful of pedestrians, far more aware of their surroundings, far more willing to drive slowly, and far more happy to stop for pedestrians even if they technically have the right of way.
NYC e-bike riders (especially the Citi bikes) are the opposite. They're far less likely to stop, far more likely to be going way faster than is safe, and far more likely to blow through stop signs entirely.
There's a well-documented phenomenon in safety that the "safer" choice in the abstract can actually end up being more dangerous because it feels safer, which leads to riskier behavior. I fear this is what is happening in NYC: incentivizing people to ride bikes doesn't get you 10x as many of the good, respectful, careful bikers you had 10 years ago. It gets you a whole bunch of reckless amateurs who buy the hype that bikes are safer and bike like maniacs. We may well find that that's worse for pedestrian safety than the well-known and well-regulated dangers of cars.
Even having said that, I kind of agree that it's true that drivers in Manhattan tend to be pretty aware, considerate, and mindful compared to other cities, all the traffic lights notwithstanding. But they have to be -- even just a little bit of distraction and they will kill someone. I can't say the same for the Citi bikers as reckless as they may be. They're far more likely to hurt themselves than someone else, and I'd rather have the reckless amateurs be on bikes than driving cars.
Fwiw, shouldn’t we consider the weight of the bike (e-bike or not e-bike) + the weight of the rider?
On my 75lb e-bike and weighing 160lb, am I more dangerous than a 220lb dude on a 15lb Schwinn?
Speed’s an issue also, but I’ve had my road bike up to 55 mph (downhill) and never exceed 24 mph on my e-bike.
So, I guess I’m saying to be equitable, set speed and combined weight limits on all things with 2 wheels.
The appropriate forums are filled with people outraged on the "ban on e-bikes" that NY State & City are leading the charge for. They were the first to ban non-UL certified bikes, and have proposed and/or enacted several other regulations against over-wattage bikes.
I'm not sure how effective the laws and enforcement are, but NYC is definitely doing more than nothing to get rid of the heaviest/fastest bikes.
https://gothamist.com/news/new-queensboro-bridge-walkway-ope...
I would tend to agree but it needs qualifying. If e-bikes run reds but cars do not, then this might not be true anymore.
So I would like to see better e-bike laws that make it illegal to have a machine that's too heavy and/or fast, and to issue court summonses to people operating those machines in bike lanes. That seems fair. It's a clear hazard, it's a selfish use of resources, and if everyone did it they'd just close the bike path altogether because it'd become unusable.
Having said that, that's not what the city is doing. They're fixated on cyclists running red lights and stop signs, not distinguishing between different kinds of bikes. Bikes, and e-bikes, are safer than cars for everyone around them. We want to encourage people to bike more and drive less because they're so much safer. (Remember a bike isn't like a car -- if a cyclist hits a pedestrian, they're gonna get hurt too!) For this reason, many states allow bikes to treat red lights as stop signs and stop signs as yield signs. So NYC's sudden shift in policy, to me, feels backwards.
It sucks because if safety was really the major concern the mayor could have just built more and safer bike lines -- which was what he promised to do, made a plan to do, and then just didn't.