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What are you talking about? Their Bitcoin holdings more than doubled in value.

Would that not be a bad thing when using it as legal tender? Deflation tends to be disastrous for the economy.
Exactly, too many people confuse investment (store of value) part of a currency with fungibility (medium of exchange) and debt (standard of deferred payment). Being good at one or even two of these things doesn't necessarily make it good at all three, good currencies balance all three to a greater or lesser degree.
> Exactly, too many people confuse investment (store of value) (...)

The "store of value" trait of money has nothing to do with the investment angle. It literally means value you store. It's the assurance that it retains it's value so to allow you to use it in the future to purchase something just like you could do today.

that doesnt hold for a deflationary currency
If the value of your coin only goes up in value, why would you use 1 bitcoin now to buy a pizza slice if you can use it 5-10 years from now to buy a house?
A house in 5-10 years is nice, but it doesn't stop me from starving to death today.
That's exactly the problem: People will (rationally!) limit their spending to bare necessities if they expect the currency they have on hand to strongly appreciate over time.
I think it was just an analogy. The incentives are to defer purchases, if possible, which lower economic activity overall.
And who doesn't want to live in an economy where your purchasing decisions are made with the hunger of starvation!
> that doesnt hold for a deflationary currency

I think crypto proponents in general share this inability to understand the fact that one of the most basic traits of money is stability of it's value, and anything that fails to meet this basic requirement is simply useless as a currency.

Bitcoiners understand it well. They realise that in order to stabilise in value and become a unit of account, it has to grow close to it's ultimate potential as a store of value first. Which in the case of bitcoin is potentially well over $100T market cap. This is why El Salvador is likely willing to back down in the currency aspect for now and focus onto accumulating and holding bitcoin reserves.
Useless after IMF bribed you with a huge pile of money.
deflation is fine for an economy. inflation is disastrous for an economy. the people in charge of the money printers are trying to keep you confused. don’t buy it.
LOL

I have $1,000.

I believe that tomorrow, my $1,000 will be worth $2,000.

Why would I ever spend my money?

Hence, economy freezes.

This is so plainly obvious to everyone except crypto zealots I literally gasped seeing your comment.

Not arguing too hard but people do have to spend some money to live regardless… it could be said people are less careful with their money when they feel like it’s losing value, so they spend more and save less. Yes it results in more spending but on what?
Yes, it would drive consumption toward the barest minimum to live and investment toward zero.

This is bad.

> Yet it results in more spending but on what?

Well near target inflation rates (which is a positive non-zero number) it results in a mix between consumption and investment.

This is good.

> Not arguing too hard but people do have to spend some money to live regardless…

This isn't about a decision to buy bread and milk for your breakfast. It's about the decision on whether you invest in a grocery store vs let your money sit in a bank. If doing nothing is more profitable than doing something then society as a whole will gravitate towards generating no economic activity. This has disastrous consequences because the majority of people in a society do not have the luxury of having investments to live off their dividends.

> If doing nothing is more profitable than doing something then society as a whole will gravitate towards generating no economic activity.

You're operating off a false premise. Do you think all economic activity would be less profitable than the interest rate offered by deflation?

The whole point of investing in any business is to make a return. Giving businesses competition in the form of deflationary currencies will not eradicate businesses from being formed, and there's no evidence to suggest these businesses will be less profitable than holding a deflationary currency.

We see this in various cryptocurrencies claiming to be deflationary with the concept of 'yield', which shows investing to be a function of their wealth, interest, and expectation of return. Inflation does not need to be in the equation for this type of development.

That 'LOL' comes across as very arrogant for someone who seems to have a tentative grasp at best on what they're commenting on. We have already experienced stagflation which runs counter to a lot of Keynesian ideas about inflation. It turns out it doesn't always encourage spending and employment. Similarly there is no evidence deflation will lead to stagnation of productivity[1]. People will always want to spend more than is needed for survival and doing so in a deflationary environment makes people think harder on how money is spent.

[1] Read this for a more comprehensive view of deflation from an economist who lived through it: https://www.amazon.com/Economic-Changes-Production-Distribut...

computers have experienced rapid deflation in the previous decades. did that prevent people from buying computers? no, obviously not.

of course you are just trolling ("LOL") and you are incurious to any evidence or argument that contradicts your straight-from-cable-news talking points.

This isn't quite the same. Money that is deflating becomes literally more functionally useful the longer you hold it. Computers stay as functionally useful as you hold them and arguably degrade relative to the software you need to run on them. In your analogy you should be concerned with whether I want to sell my computer (analogous to spending my money). If a computer truly did become more functional with passing time then no, nobody would sell them unless they had to - illustrating the problem.
Who cares? The "economy" is just people buying and selling things. If they choose not to and save instead, that's great. It's called freedom.

It's like saying - "if we have some money that keeps going up in value, we won't need to work anymore and unemployment figures will go up - that's terrible - we must not allow it to happen!"

Because I need to buy food, clothes, pay rent, and replace my laptop that just died.

And I need to do this today or i’ll starve on the street.

I could delay buying a new laptop, but that’s a personal preference. I still need one at some point.

That’s why I would spend my money, because there are things I need or want.

Right, you'll spend the absolute bare minimum and proactively invest approximately never.

This is bad.

In fact, you'll only ever invest in highly speculative investments because they're the only things that might possibly justify the opportunity cost of your currency just accruing value.

This is bad.

By people in change of money printer, did you mean Giancarlo Devacini, who has printed hundred billion funny tokens in some non-extradition offshore with zero audit, and used those funny tokens to buy other tokens like BTC, ETH and others? Those people? Or he is fine, because you are directly benefiting from that token printer and doesn't care about others being swindled in the process?
If the wind blew the other way, you wouldn't be talking here.
Yeah, i really dislike bitcoin, but have to admit, it has been a very profitable investment for a lot of people (and still hasn't completely crashed like expected)...

... although as a form of currency (as opposed to an investment) for El Salvador, it looks like it's a failure

The risk that IMF would be concerned about is that the value of their holdings could go to 0 overnight by a wallet hack, data loss, an unscrupulous government employee, or the world running out of greater fools.
Tether collapse is still the big one.
Yeah, that's my theory too on one reason it hasn't fully crashed (meaning "the world running out of greater fools"). Unlike tulip bulbs or the dot.com crash, bitcoin is a world-wide phenomenon so there is large supply of bitcoin buyers. Yeah, even the dot.com crash was done in the highly regulated US stock market.

Also thinking, since it's extremely difficult to regulate, was wondering if some very clever people with huge holdings have formed a cartel and are doing a lot of price manipulation to prevent it from fully collapsing (maybe even during a rise in price, causing it to drop early to prevent a major run up). But that's just a theory.

It’s around 100k USD apiece, +875% in the last 5y, +340% over last 2y, +130% over last 1y… I’d also qualify this as “not quite crashed yet”

I dont know what the future hodls but it’s looking pretty good for bitcoin so far

That is not a currency in the same manner that gold isn't a currency or barrels of oil isn't either. Or in other words, you don't use for buying a coffee or grocery.

Sure that you can always point some exotic and rare exceptions to prove differently but even yourself don't use it on normal daily financial operations, and no, Lightning isn't even bitcoin so please don't argue with that.

There are more things backing up the value rise for that old tech. Just please diversify into other areas so you don't come out empty handed in some years from now.

As we all know, past results ARE an indicator of future performance
>I dont know what the future hodls but it’s looking pretty good for bitcoin so far

The future always looks good right before a crash. You really don't want a currency as unstable as bitcoin as your legal ledger. we would have had 2 crashes already in this decade alone: the obvious 2020 dip and the dip in 2023.

All the DOGE/Trump shennaigans + the investigation on the Hawk Tuah coin will probably crash it again late this year.

I don't think DOGE/Trump are real bitcoin advocates. I think they're using it as a financial weapon to exploit its vulnerability to crash and break things they don't want to exist.
"the lightbulb is always brightest right before it burns out"
> I dont know what the future hodls

I see you.

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