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unlike others, i like the site and the initial prompt.

Lost me at "verify email" though. Why get so creative, yet limit yourself to archaic "email". Why do *YOU* the provider need me to have an email or a phone?

Look, mullvad can provide vpn services without email or all that nonsense. If you want people who will use ssh to order things, these are the same people that would get your service because you're not asking for dumb things like email. It's the first thing you ask of potential users, and it's an obstacle preventing them from giving you their money!

You can issue users a recovery/access key and/or let them user their ssh public key and trust they know how to manage that on their own. If you have messages for them, display that when they login. This sort of stuff differentiates your service, ssh does too, but it's cosmetic and gimmicky. I would prefer a rest-api over ssh anyways, but ssh is cool too.


You can’t host compute for anonymous users. I mean you can, but you won’t for long due to the abuse that will inevitably come with it. That you are responsible for. And anyway, it’s not always going to be free.
What are the abuse risks of compute versus vpn? Mullvad is doing it already. Their payment information doesn't need to be "anonymous". I have hosted websites while paying for the domain, vps hosting and all that it entails entirely with BTC, not once using payment information associated with me. But you know what was required of me even then? A damn email address!!
Compute opens vast surface area for abuse that VPN does not. You could use it control bot networks, host CSAM, host phishing sites and more.
Yet, anonymous compute providers exist. Either way, if all you want is to identify who your users are, that's fine. Email hardly helps. It's not hard to setup a temporary mailbox. Anyone can sign up to protonmail without identifying themselves too much. All you're doing is making it inconvenient for the opportunistic an lazy potential criminals (and legit users alike). Simply not accepting crypto payment goes a long way. Furthermore, even if your users are 100% innocent & legitimate, they could and do get compromised (happens a LOT).

I think it's just something people do because "everyone else" is doing it. Lots of familiarity around email. "it's just not done" as they say.

Getting a usable e-mail and phone is a few cents spent on one of the many shady SMS-reception services.
Yes, that is why they always require a credit card as well. I'm sure exe.dev will be no different soon but they are trying this in alpha to get feedback and traction; just hoping they won't attract the notice of the barbarian hordes right away.
I run https://pico.sh where we don’t ask for email. Even on our website we instruct users to generate a token so if they do lose their key they can use it to recover their account.

People regularly lose their ssh keypair and also don’t generate a token. I think using email as a form of recovery is totally fine and regardless when you have to pay for the service you’re going to give up your email (and other personal info) via payment processor

I would eventually want even payment processors to stop asking for email. They have my address and government id, for any liability related reasons. ideally, we would use federated auth, where auth providers aren't using email at all. I'd imagine the complexity of your backend is simpler too as a result.

And kudos on your service, I'll keep it mind next time I'm picking a provider.

It isn't a free service -- only during the alpha you get access to an "Individual" account which would normally run $20/mo once the test period is over.

https://exe.dev/docs/pricing

Yes, it should be paid of course. Matter of fact, please charge me more for the privilege of not being asked email,phone, credit cards. Just take my money, and feel free to take whatever steps you think are needed to make sure abuse isn't taking places. I champion requiring a "deposit" where if abuse took place the user would forfeit it.

But, my original comment is strictly about email. Even if you asked for a government-id and credit-card payment, I won't object. Just please, no email!

I think that leaves: how would you prefer to recover your account if you lost access?
same way I would with my email provider. But I'd expect a recovery code of some sort that i could save.

How would you normally recover an account? Email? So, if my email is compromised, everything gets compromised? That's not sane at all. You should normally have MFA, and if you can recover your MFA/2FA with email, it's just an over-engineered inconvenience. The way it's done right, the MFA recovery code servers as a general account recovery code as well. You save that somewhere safe and offline.

In this case, they use ssh public keys, so there is no need for all that, just add a spare public key to authorized_keys, and keep it's private key offline and safe, ideally in an HSM.

This is a service for technical people, so all that works, for general consumer service, you give them a choice. Either they choose to use a recovery key, a recovery email/phone...or recovery via payment. Let them pay $1 for recovery, proving they control the original method of payment (KYC not crypto). But if nothing else, users should be able to choose recovery code instead of email. It's more secure, because you're not relying on a 3rd party service to also be secure. I don't like them much, but recovery questions have also been used, but if you think about it, those are not that different from recovery codes, they're just more guessable.

Recovery codes aren't one string, they're usually multiple, so if users chose, they can split up their storage. For added reliability, you can require validation of recovery codes periodically, after a successful sign-in.

Thanks for explaining! I was mainly curious what viable alternatives there would be for the average user, and I think your suggestions are sound. Even technical folks wants things to feel as frictionless as possible.

The nice thing about recovery codes is being able to store them securely in a password manager alongside any other entries for the service.

The downside is they're easy to leak (or lose), so the added factors in requiring access to email (also with its own 2FA) are lost in a system like this, if whatever you're managing is mission critical. I wouldn't want to make that kind of bet, personally.

> , personally.

I get it, that's why I advocate letting users choose. Especially with a technical audience, treating them like they can't be trusted to make mission critical choices is not good.

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