In the Netherlands, in the early 30's we had a census. All the good jewish citizens of the good kingdom of the Netherlands filled in their religion. Because, why shouldn't they? Fast forward a couple of years, and those detailed census results are really handy for the occupying nazis.
During WW II, 95% of the jewish in the Netherlands were killed. Compare this with a country that does not have a central register of it's citizens (France), where "only" 25% of the jewish were killed.
Also, when you give up your DNA, you're not just giving it up for you. You're giving it up for your family.
Why do you doubt that given the very obvious ethnic persecution going on in the US right now against immigrants, especially Hispanics?
Like, okay, "Ian Butler" in particular doesn't sound terribly Hispanic, but I think that's splitting hairs on the larger point
The admin is overplaying their hand with some shoddy tactics, and the more citizens they drag into the net, the more quickly they'll lose the popular opinion here.
Perhaps because they mistakenly thought he wouldn't do exactly what he said he would do, or that there would be checks & balances to make sure it wasn't too heavy-handed so they personally were not in danger. Now he is doing what he said he would do in that regard (even when accidentally saying the quiet bits out loud) many are somewhat surprised and concerned.
Oddly while not beleiving he would go all-in on the purge many did believe he would do what he said with respect to what they saw as good things (lowering prices, and taxes (for them), ending the Ukraine conflict, keeping America out of other conflicts particularly in the middle-east, releasing any and all Epstein information, …), and are aghast at those things not being carried through as promised on the campaign trail.
I don't know them but they could be gay, or have a gay friend, or be atheist or religious, or maybe they once visited Costa Rica as a tourist and Costa Rica becomes the next pariah state or whatever. They might have driven a friend to an abortion clinic in the past
The very point is that you can't predict what could become a problem for a hypothetical future authoritarian state. If you look at the worst examples in history it could be something as innocuous seeming today as writing a non-political book or having distant relations with the same people as some other "undesirable" person.
You can see right now with the mass deportations, evidence and making a watertight case aren't priorities once you get to this point.
So I think the author's point stand, that there's little additional risk in some private company having your SNPs. The question is, is it worth it? I'd say, unless you (or a relative you want to help) are into genealogy, it's not worth it, even if the risk is small.
But genealogy is fun. It's also, I think, something that can be deeply meaningful for almost anyone.
Because, do you have all answers to what's important in life? Probably not, I hope? If you haven't, aren't you interested in what answers your own ancestors implicitly (through the lives they lived) gave to the big questions in life?
It's commonly said, "those who learn nothing from history are doomed to repeat it" etc. Might that not be true on an immediate, personal level too? History is more than grand politics, it's also the lives of normal people. And who could you learn most from, if not the people who are most similar to you?
That's my pitch for doing genealogy as a hobby... Now, it should be said, genetic genealogy is a pretty small part of genealogy, unless you're unfortunate with adoptions etc. in your family. Even for that, I'd say there are better options than 23andMe, I do not see personally have my SNP data there.
Point is, for all things, security is a trade-off, about which risks are worth it and for what gain.
DNA is just one facet of all the data being actively collected by SuperMegaCorp and/or governments (or probably worst of all, both at the same time and in cooperation with each other).
We shed DNA in useful, analyzable amounts wherever we go. In a decade or so, "collectors" of DNA from the air may sprout up everywhere, aggregating DNA of the passersby and sorting it into buckets using, say, face recognition. Even if such practice was limited to the airports, the databases will grow. People have to prove their identity when boarding flights, so pairing them with their DNA trace is feasible.
And if a country bans this practice, another may not, and their database may be hacked and sold openly, so any person which traveled there will be exposed.
The privacy argument might work in some Western countries, and the corresponding legislation may be enacted there, but once you have to travel to India or China or Dubai profesionally, the cat will be out of the bag.
Feasible and present are entirely separate.
Look at illegal immigrants today. The ones who co-operated with the government by e.g. showing up to court appointments or registering in apps are easier to catch because of that documentation. So they're prioritised. Same with DNA. Yes, you could pass a rule and then slowly collect DNA from all Americans who fly. But it's a lot easier to start with those who have already given it up.
- what if you're part of a minority the government wants to disappear, like the Uyghur in China? DNA is indicative of many minorities. You don't have to commit a crime.
- you don't have to share your DNA, some distant cousin sharing theirs is enough to implicate you (as in the Golden State Killer's arrest). You cannot control your far-flung relatives. You may not have a choice in this kind of privacy. That's what makes DNA unique in relation to other kinds of private data: your cousin's browsing history does not implicate you, DNA however may.
Disappearance explicitly occurs outside the protection of the law [1]. It historically occurred during events of ethnic cleansing and mass murder.
It is more of the converse in that I see breaking the law as immoral. My position is consistent which is why an extreme example has what people conceive of as an extreme response. I try and avoid letting emotions cloud my judgement in such matters.
It's the same thing. When you see breaking the law as inherently immoral, you guide your life to exist strictly in-line with the law. In other words, you use the law as a moral guide.
You unequivocally equate law with morality. And you fail to account for immoral laws, as well as illegal enforcement actions. Was having gay sex immoral in the 80s, but suddenly became moral as it was legalized? What about countries where it is illegal? Is having gay sex there immoral? Not exactly a position I'd call consistent, as you put it.
What about simply existing as a Palestinian person? Is being Palestinian immoral? It's certainly bordering on illegal, as extermination efforts continue.
I'm sure Jews in 1930s Germany were passionate about living in dignity. The Nazis made sure they had to give that up.
Your life.
“Genocide/ethnic cleansing sucks but if the people want it, you deserve to get it.”
charcircuit, 2025
Probably easier to place you with your cell phone location data, or surveillance cameras and face recognition.
That's borderline no longer a hypothetical.
I genuinely don't know and would like to know: are you being sarcastic? I'm asking because to me it seems like you are, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
And it is not the state (criminality) that is the biggest risk IMO. The classifying of people into "sheep and goats" is more likely to come from private power. Governments are dangerous, yes. But there are many fewer democratic checks and balances over private power
Seems like you just read the first phrase of his comment and immediately went into an adversarial "are you being sarcastic?" loop. Because the point you made is what came immediately after the part you quoted in his original comment:
> [...] but let's play out the worst case scenario and a fascist government comes to power and something I do now is considered criminal and they can place me doing it with this DNA that as the author describes can narrow down if it was me pretty easily.
So, as for the rest of his comments, such as: "The author also makes this like a weird dichotomy with online tracking, I ALSO care about being tracked on the internet and my personal privacy is pretty important to me in general.", I agree.
I edited my comment as it was deeply misunderstood, and I am not interested in having it derailed even further. Maybe another time.
Because I actually addressed that "have nothing to hide" argument. Oh well!
You can tell me I'm paranoid or something, but I can also just not give them my DNA for no effort and be all the more better off if something like this happens OR if I do commit a crime under current laws I haven't given up the ghost immediately.
This feels like short term little gain for catastrophic effects in the worst case scenario.
The author also makes this like a weird dichotomy with online tracking, I ALSO care about being tracked on the internet and my personal privacy is pretty important to me in general.
I want all of my privacy, or better worded I want privacy to be my choice such as here on HN where I use my real name intentionally. :)