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xyzzy_plugh parent
I used to share this mindset, and I still agree that individual ownership is possible for engineers. Unfortunately many, many engineers simply do not want it. I would reckon most if not all engineers are comfortable with ownership at the team boundary, but many simply do not care beyond that. It's just a day job.

Individual ownership at the individual engineer boundary can breed distrust within a team or org, but often alienates team members who like their job but aren't trying to lead, at least with respect to what ownership entails. In this blended environment someone almost always ends up without agency. Sometimes no one gets agency. Who wants that?

It's surprisingly simple and effective by comparison to give a team agency and ownership, usually in part because of the dynamic of having a manager or lead to begin with.

Simply put, there are too many modes of failure at the individual level for software ownership to settle there comfortably: staffing changes, job security, career growth are the obvious ones, but the dysfunction (even in otherwise healthy orgs, there's always some amount) will find the shortest path to complete the circuit here.

I like to think of it like a gearbox. If you only have one gear, and you break it, or wear out all the teeth, then you don't get to go. If you have many gears, well, the ride may be uncomfortable at times, but you'll keep moving.


almosthere
I personally think _most_ people should treat their jobs as a _day_ job - unless they have actual ownership in the company (beyond what would be a 50-100k payout at option time)
thePhytochemist
I think this is key when people talk about "ownership". Actually owning a product means that if it fails you're holding the bag, if it succeeds you take the profits. And you have full control over it. Unless a company actually wants to do this I wish they wouldn't use that english word.

Trying to hire an employee and tell this story that they "own" the product is just silly. It's like companies that try to describe themselves as a family - just kind of a weird and incorrect use of a real word that has other meaning.

intelVISA
Ownership means you have real skin in the corp, your payout goes up or down, hopefully somewhat proportional to your hard work.

'Ownership' is taking on those same stresses and responsibilities without any of the potential pay-offs... or at best a marginal rounding error.

It's not surprising that few people want to work as a founder but get compensated like an employee.

I certainly did a ton of traveling/speaking/meeting with customers/sometimes late night calls in different time zones/etc. but I still treated it as colloquially a "day job," albeit not really a 9-5 one.
eikenberry
In my experience this is mostly big-company vs. small company cultural differences due almost strictly to size and scaling. Small companies work best when individuals have ownership and large companies with team based ownership. They attract culturally like-minded people.
tikhonj
The highest-agency, highest-ownership team I worked on was at Target of all places. (To be fair, it was not a typical team for the company!) The VP who made that work learned that style of leadership from a decade in Strats at Goldman. Both are pretty big as companies go!

On the flip side, I've seen early-stage startups and scale-ups where engineers did not have real ownership. It's easy to get into a situation where an individual engineer "owns" a specific part of a startup... but can't make any real decisions on it because the founders want to dictate work at a week-to-week level or something.

It's a function of culture, not scale.

eikenberry
I think the cultures naturally change with scale. Is isn't a requirement, just a tendency. At least from my personal experiences, friends and read over the years this seems like a good general heuristic. I personally use it as a primary rule for job seeking, I ignore any company over ~500 people. Once they are bigger than that and their culture seems to start naturally evolving to the same stance of people being interchangeable cogs that have no worth as an individual. This naturally leads to team ownership as there is no one else.

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