Preferences

AlotOfReading parent
There are large parts of this I really like, but it's hard to overstate just how much I disagree with the idea that "The only meaningful measure of productivity is impact to the business". The natural result of this view is a focus on quantifiable changes and short term thinking. The greatest value of experienced engineers is in avoiding landmines that will destroy a project or even a company. It's difficult to quantify things that never happen, or communicate the value in avoiding them in terms that don't sound wildly hyperbolic.

Retric
“Impact on the business” isn’t inherently a short term viewpoint.

Maximum impact is a long term proposition.

AlotOfReading OP
It's not inherently a short term viewpoint, that's just the typical and natural result of adopting this view. Measuring long term impacts is hard. Attributing them is even harder.

Here's a real scenario. I worked for a company that evaluated by impact. They had a cellular modem with known issues in the field. A replacement was designed to fix those issues, but couldn't be backwards compatible. The cost to immediately upgrade the field units was high, so deployment was delayed to a cheaper, later time. One way of looking at this is that the decision saved millions of dollars and that argument was made. After the evaluation and before the deployment, a set of older field units failed in such a way that it made headlines across the country, which would have been prevented by the new units.

So, was the impact of those decisions negative the whole time in an unknowable way? Did their impact become negative as soon as the incident occurred? If the incident was still possible but hadn't occurred, would the impact be different?

People aren't good at evaluating things that haven't happened yet, so they'll tend to focus on the things they can see immediately in front of them. That incentivizes engineers to build things that have immediate short term impacts and discount long tail risks which can't be reliably evaluated.

tikhonj
100%. I've taken to using intentionally fuzzy phrases to describe productivity/impact/effectiveness/whatever. Like, "in a holistic accounting, person X did a great job". It's not necessarily—in fact, necessarily not—easily quantifiable or legible, it requires some human insight and judgement, but so does any complex, creative endeavor. Trying to reduce management to metrics is inherently short-sighted.
nonameiguess
I'm not sure I totally agree with measuring value by avoiding landmines or anything at all related to project management, but it definitely bugs me to see everything reduced to business impact. There are plenty of things in life that matter to individuals, to humanity, to the entire world at large, that have nothing to do with selling products for money. When I think of the engineers I revere the most, I don't think of titans of post-2001 Silicon Valley so much as John von Neumann, Robert Oppenheimer, Nikola Tesla, Leonardo DaVinci, whoever the hell built the Roman aqueducts and Egyptian pyramids, Babylonians and Mesoamericans who figured out how to predict eclipses.

Did these people have a business impact? I guess Tesla made Westinghouse a lot of money at one point, but that seems far from the most distinguishing thing that made him great at what he did. If anything, he was mediocre at business.

Even if we want to look at current titans of the computing industry, I admire the work done by orgs like Nvidia or humans like Geoff Hinton, but they also just got lucky that what they were doing for completely different reasons ended up benefiting so tremendously from the galaxy-scale data harvesting that has been going on due to the Internet becoming primarily ad-monetized, which they didn't know was going to happen. How many equally great engineers toiled in obscurity on dead ends but did equally great work? Doug Lenat was just as great an AI engineer, if not better, than Geoff Hinton. History just went one way and not the other, due to factors completely outside of the control of either of them.

jessitron
ooh, good point.

You can build systems for efficiency, or build them to minimize disaster. It's really hard to see the negative impact on the business that was prevented.

esafak
The company should be constantly striving to better quantify the unknown.
spimmy
idk, avoiding landmines seems like pretty significant business impact
tikhonj
it's real impact, but it requires folks to be able to confidently talk about counterfactuals—"we would have wasted X days if not for..."—which I've found to be really hard at most places

the exception was places where leadership already thought in the same terms about software quality/etc, which meant I didn't have to do much convincing :P

how would you build teams or structures to support that sort of holistic thinking about software?

spimmy
i think it has to start with having engineering managers and directors who are deeply technical themselves. the idea that you can split up this work into "managers do the people stuff" and "engineers do the technical stuff" is bananas. it's all sociotechnical work.

this is why i advocate the engineer/manager pendulum so strongly. we get better results when management has strong tech skills (and staff+ engineers have organizational skills as well).

This item has no comments currently.