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mmcnl parent
I don't really understand the repairability appeal of the Framework. Hasn't that already been a selling point for the business line laptops of HP, Lenovo and Dell for years? They all offer premium business laptops with removable RAM, SSD and battery and very detailed maintenance guides. Part availability is good too.
hokumguru
What’s the current procedure for getting HP or Lenovo or Dell to sell you replacement monitor? What about just a chassis if you drop yours and get a dent? Even a spare battery? If you’re not buying one of their premium business laptops, you’re kind of SOL.

How about in five years from now when all of that is still fine, but you just want to replace the mainboard.

What about when framework comes out with upgrades down the line? The great thing is because they’re so modular you can just buy that and slap it in without having to buy an entirely new machine.

That’s the appeal

bradfa
Dell Latitude and Lenovo Thinkpad parts are pretty easy to come by on eBay. I’ve bought a handful of different parts from drive caddies, OEM batteries, hinge assemblies, keyboards, and trackpads without much drama. Dell Latitude service manuals are top notch with detailed procedures and diagrams. Dell has a decent track record of maintaining their firmware for a reasonable number of years after release.
bigfatkitten
Lenovo parts are easy enough to buy direct these days, at least for recent/current models.
hokumguru
eBay is not first party support. And it’s certainly not first party support 5 years later like Framework still offers for the Laptop 13.
chickensong
My previous laptop was HP, and servicing it was fairly unpleasant. It required removing around 30 screws of multiple sizes to get access, where the Framework requires 5 screws, which are captive. By the third time I needed to service the HP, the part I needed was no longer available directly from HP, and the 3rd party price was too expensive to sink into an aging laptop.

Some of the business lines are better, but the ultrabook styles that Framework is competing with can be pretty difficult to work on because the internals are so optimized for performance in a small space. The big manufacturers also tend to change the internals enough between models/versions, that if you want to fully gut and swap the insides, or maybe just replace the keyboard, the chassis is incompatible. Framework is designed to service over a longer period of time.

There is a tradeoff, because the super-optimized layouts of the big manufacturers are often superior. But for me at least, the Framework is good enough, and when I do need to make changes, it's a better experience. I'm also voting with my wallet for the change I want to see, even though the cost is probably a slightly worse laptop.

mmcnl OP
The HP EliteBook series are very easy to repair. Only 4 captive screws and you can access all the internals. Has been like that for years.
chpatrick
To a point, but new mainboard means new laptop for all of those brands. With Framework it's a five minute process to get a new CPU.
kiwijamo
Even that is slowly dying out. Lenovo sells many expensive business grade laptops with soldered on RAM for example.
mmcnl OP
They have laptops with soldered RAM but also a lot without. The classic 14" ThinkPad (now called T14) has non-soldered RAM. The EliteBook 8 G1 14" also non-soldered RAM if you get the non-Lunar Lake edition. Same for the Dell counterpart.
0xTJ
While HP's service guides have been good, even on their non-business models, the actual serviceability isn't great. You have rubber feet that can't be re-applied after removal, and good luck getting replacement parts as an average consumer (I haven't even been able to get a first-party battery for my HP Envy x360). Not every laptop is going to a corporation with an IT department and direct procurement connections.

RAM, SSD, and battery are also the very minimum in terms of serviceability on a laptop, they've been traditionally user-serviceable. It's components like the touchpad, display, ribbon cables, etc. that haven't been traditionally easy/possible to replace.

mmcnl OP
The consumer laptops are not built for easy repairability. EliteBooks are very servicable, only 4 or 5 captive screws and you can easily access all the internals.
0xTJ
Having specific lines be easily repairable doesn't influence how Framework laptops interact with the rest of the market. It's very much not just businesses (or individuals buying business-line devices) that should be able to repair their laptops, and they're not advertising themselves exclusively to businesses.

Also, my biggest issue with my HP Envy x360 is not getting inside. It's annoying to have to buy new (third-party) replacement feet after removing them (and shouldn't be done by HP regardless), but it's not a big problem. And the service guide is quite good. It's the fact that I haven't been able to buy a new first-party battery, I can't buy a new screen, mainboard, or trackpad if I end up needing one.

Sure I can (and have) upgraded the RAM and SSD, and replaced the battery with a third-party one (well actually two, the first one didn't have some ID chip, and would show a warning screen on every boot). But the RAM and SSD are just upgrades, and batteries are consumables. I can't reasonably repair damaged or failing parts if the screen cracks, if coffee gets spilled in the keyboard, if a port gets damaged. Only 4 parts are listed as available (pen tip, RAM, AC adapter, and Wi-Fi card), and only the AC adapter is in stock.

mmcnl OP
No indeed it doesn't change anything about Framework the company. But I still fail to see why I would buy a Framework over a HP EliteBook, Lenovo ThinkPad or Dell Pro laptop. The only reason I can imagine is upgradability: you can upgrade the CPU by buying a new mainboard. But that doesn't really appeal to me. The mainboards are very expensive and it only leads to more e-waste. From a sustainability perspective it's better to have 2 fully functioning laptops in use compared to 1.5 laptops with expensive parts collecting dust in a cabinet.

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