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ungreased0675
Judging from how the DoD currently buys software, lots of money will be spent, many headlines will be written, awards will be handed out, and zero software will make it on to user workstations. End users will continue to use Excel for everything.
LanceH
You almost had it until the end.

This will be used to generate even more powerpoint.

Government officials were asking Microsoft Clippy (the only virtual assistant with clearance) to create a national defense roadmap for the next five years, but kept getting the same response:

"Hi there. It looks like you're trying to write a document. Would you like me to open Word?"

This upgrade was long overdue.

tonyhart7
200 mil is chump change for them, if prototype turned to be good then good for them but if its not then they are not worry
That 200 Million is chump change only to people who think like chumps. In reality it is total waste, unproductive taxation that doubles as a counter balance to inflation, so doubly wasteful.

Chump together all the 100s of millions in waste year over year; the change to your chumping is not good change, its inflation and general impoverishment. Every penny of that 200 is a note in the bank of inflation and degradation.

JeremyNT
I believe this is implied in the parent's post.

We fund the military industrial complex to such a ludicrous degree that $200m can just disappear on bullshit contracts to cronies that go nowhere, and politicians don't bat an eye.

Nobody with power cares about the debt. They just keep borrowing money and handing it to the defense industry. This is one of only a handful of issues on which there is bipartisan agreement.

Yes, the real government is the one in agreement, and the "handful of issues" account for almost all of the spending. Their disagreements, in budget terms and in reality, are cheap and pretentious theatrics.

But I doubt the politicians "don't bat an eye" at 200M, for they know that money is going straight out of the economy and into private coffers.

The government budgeters are not naive to the economics of military spending. The cope about pennies on the tax dollar is naive about both economics and what the government is really doing.

This idea that government is incapable, dumb, and prone to mismanagement is a harmful rationalization, and simply not true. If anything, this thinking excuses the government to act that way, and then there is no way of knowing if they are purposefully mismanaging or doing so because incapable.

what reality are you living in, friend? Mismanagement and grift has been the way of the government - and particularly the military - forever.

No one here is excusing anything, but rather just stating how things are. And if you think that those with the power actually give any consideration to us, let alone think "hey, they dont care, carry on!", then you've truly lost the plot

nilamo
Is all of that truely "waste", if it is being paid toward onshore companies? The money doesn't disappear, it gets redistributed to American companies.
Loudergood
Broken Window Fallacy.

We could be spending it on things with a much higher return.

fennecbutt
Executives and shareholders* not you and I.
What in the Ayn Rand are you talking about?

Are you really unable to distinguish the difference in value between, say, funding infrastructure maintenance - or 1000 other things - and just filling some crony's pockets?

tonyhart7
US literally have 1 trillion military budget, if you think 200 mil its a waste for prototyping a next gen weapon then I would have a bad news for you
hansvm
It's something like $3 straight out of my pocket, and it's going to be a flop. That trillion dollar military budget has a lot of semi-unavoidable costs (pensions, salaries, etc), but it has a lot of bullshit like this too.

Your argument feels something like the heap paradox [0], "the budget is big, so this thing doesn't matter." The budget is made of things this size though, and all it takes to fix it is to start taking grains of sand out of the pile instead of stacking the pile higher.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorites_paradox

potato3732842
The nickels and dimes add the F up. Stop acting like they don't.

Save perhaps the most extreme "I spend 70% of my six figure income on rent because I want to live alone somewhere trendy" of household budgets this is true for literally everything from the smallest business in the smalles of small towns to the federal government.

FirmwareBurner
200 mil for a government contract is peanuts when you see how much taxpayer money governments loose via waste and corruption
raizer88
DOGE found basically nothing, and they worked with an axe trying to cut anything that come close to waste. So I am not sure where you see all this "waste and corruption".
acheong08
The goal of DOGE wasn't really to cut waste and corruption, just stuff they didn't like.

I'd argue that most of the military is waste and that America has no need to involve itself in wars. Something like Japan's SDF is sufficient and the extras could help with domestic infrastructure and public transport.

jagermo
I am convinced that you can find waste (probably not as much corruption) in every modern government. However, you need people to really dive into the processes, ask what and why those have been set up in the past (every rule has an origin story) and if they can be bundled or streamlined. Same with expenses, you need things like forensic accountants and time to understand things.

Doge wanted to take shortcuts and destroyed everything without having alternatives in place. They had hoped for short-term wins, and neither the workers there nor their boss has the attention span or the experience necessary to really understand and optimize processes, thus reducing waste.

overfeed
> neither the workers there nor their boss has the attention span or the experience necessary to really understand and optimize processes, thus reducing waste.

The Government Accountability Office is a congressional body that's been doing exactly what you describe for years. It's old - so it goes against the narrative that government waste is unmonitored, it's also unglamorous, boring, and not meme-able, and most importantly non-partisan, so it won't reliably dominate the news cycle with outrageous partisan talking points.

FirmwareBurner
Bad faith argument. Why are you moving the discussion to DOGE when that's not what I was talking about?

You know the word "governments" that I used, means a lot more than the current TRUMP administration, right? Broaden your mind and PoV.

And also, how can you say with a straight face there isn't ongoing and never has been waste and corruption in any government? Again, think for yourself, ignore $CURRENT_EVENTS.

Look at your nation's government contracts that funnel taxpayer money to private pockets, then look at the output. Has there been value delivered proportional to the money spent at reasonable market rates? If not, then money was definitely wasted via incompetence, pocketed via corruption, or both.

This is so prevalent and is has become the norm everywhere for so long, that people are not even giving it a second thought anymore when it comes to government corruption, but somehow people want to be spoon-fed sources as if it's an unbelievable conspiracy theory.

zimpenfish
> "waste and corruption"

Well, "waste" is often defined by conservatives as "anything spent on the poors and/or not given to the rich" - by that standard, yeah, there's a lot of "waste" in the US government.

the_sleaze_
Your argument is that the government doesn't waste money?

Are you sure that's a defensible position?

Nearby a vacation spot there is a sand dune next to the road, and a carpenter spent an afternoon building a ramp over it so that his son could drive his mobility scooter onto the beach. The city tore it down, then took over 2 years to build it back, worse quality, at a final cost of over $40,000.

What do you make of this story, and how did DOGE even attempt a fix?

> End users will continue to use Excel for everything.

Wait, I thought AI is killing all these jobs?!

sillystu04
Quite the opposite. AI will enable the creation of ever more macros and guide users to make even more elaborate pivot tables.
ChrisMarshallNY
Obligatory xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1667/
orangepanda
It's Excel's format guessing doing all the killing
medstrom
Sounds like it needs some AI.
867-5309
Clippy to the rescue
egorfine
Some of the government jobs could be killed by Excel alone but even that did not happen for decades.
FirmwareBurner
They keep saying this, but I'd like to see AI drink 6 beers before lunchtime.
This isn’t software to be installed, though, is it? I am likely to think this will be a network service and therefore available via a browser. Connectivity may be better than you think.
VectorLock
Don't forget "Lt Col. commissions will be bought."
I want to see the 3pao reports from deploying a large llm inside high or one of the iso partitions.
lazyeye
Not to mention OpenAI has quite a few foreign nationals working for them anyway so I wonder what new defense tech will stay secret for any period of time.
jmsdnns
Where did TCP/IP come from? It's on every computer.
Is this substantive engagement with the earlier comment? I’m not seeing it. You probably know the examples are different (long term R&D on a telecom protocol followed by government implementation and standards and industry adoption … versus fairly early-days access to a GenAI model tuned for defense contexts).
ajross
Generally a notable counter-example to a broad-brush point stands as "substantive engagement", yeah. Stating that the Pentagon buys software badly in the general case is a less specific and less engaged point than "ARPANET and IPv4 were DoD projects that ate the world".

If you want to argue that the examples are different, that's an extra point you need to bring to the table. You're not allowed to assume everyone just agrees with you.

Don’t you think the standard you mention is too low? I do.

The comment didn’t advance the conversation. It was a relatively shallow level of engagement; something I’d expect to see in a silly Reddit back and forth. We deserve better here.

And to your point: my comment explained my point: “long term R&D on a telecom protocol followed by government implementation and standards and industry adoption versus…”.

Of course I don’t assume everyone agrees with me. (You don’t really think I do, do you?) But I want people to put a certain level effort to reach a quality bar. My problem perhaps is that people don’t want to put in sufficient effort. Or perhaps as a community we are not setting the bar high enough. This level of thinking is attainable here; we just need to set the bar and fight for it.

willcipriano
That was 51 years ago at about a trillion spent a year since. Have any examples from the 21st century? Keep in mind they also essentially lost every war they fought during that time as well.
Nobody was given a contract to generate tcp/ip. And the protocol itself was mostly meaningless for decades.
segfaultex
Is your implication that MSFT will bundle the tool in their windows dist?

I wonder how that will work with the networking reqs the DoD has. Probably some direct link to a gov VPC I suppose.

matchagaucho
From what I understood, usage will be largely async, background, AI batch jobs using the latest reasoning models.
TZubiri
Not all software is made public and used in workstations, especially not in military
0_____0
Would you mind elaborating a bit?
deletedie
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai...

If the physical disconnect between killing a person (e.g. UAVs) wasn't enough to make that task easier then further offloading the decision of who to target might help.

grafmax
With rising authoritarianism in the US it is highly likely the military will be increasingly deployed against US citizens. Replacing the humans in the loop with AI removes a key safeguard. We’re heading down a very very dark path.
golergka
Physical connect means that the person who is making the decision to kill is scared for their life. Physical disconnect means he's only scared for a piece of equipment.

Guess which one of those is more trigger happy.

JumpCrisscross
> If the physical disconnect between killing a person (e.g. UAVs) wasn't enough to make that task easier then further offloading the decision of who to target might help

The physical disconnect hypothesis isn't really borne out by the lack of concern for collateral damage in pre-firearm warfare, when killing was mostly done face to face, compared to today.

Waterluvian
“Let’s take another whack at real-time object identification built into night vision goggles.”

(Made-up but plausible example)

just giving the whole DoD chatgpt that's deployed in their servers would be pretty useful i guess for them?
TZubiri
For example: OAI could offer api access and consulting for the DoD to build a network of honeypot fake personas for flooding or infiltrating recruiting operations of the enemy.

That would be back end only, not all software has a gui.

bryanrasmussen
Stop shooting at me, damn it, I'm Sam Altman!

Of course, that was an error on my part. I should only be shooting at other people and actually not in the part of the city at all, it's definitely a mistake on my part and I will rectify immediately. Thank you again for pointing it out to me!

You're still shooting at me!

nopelynopington
You're absolutely right! I've stopped shooting now, and I've also taken all the bullets out of my gun

Bang

beezlebroxxxxxx
Despite what every AI exec will say publicly, I'm pretty sure they're salivating at the prospect of war/defense related applications of AI. There's just too much money floating around in the military industrial complex for them to ignore. This is doubly so if the "business" part of your AI company is about as solid as a fart in the wind.
i don’t think they actually care about the applications. I think what really matters to them is making money as the middleman between AI providers and the government, pushing whatever flashy-sounding nonsense will keep the generals happy, especially the ones getting treated to thousand-dollar steak dinners and promised cushy private-sector jobs.
jmsdnns
If you say "china" to any of them, you'll see how very true your words are.
wackget
Anyone else angered by the fact that these military companies have named themselves using words from Tolkien's works?

Andruil, Palantir... it makes a mockery of the things that Tolkien stood for and I hate it.

After seeing that demo of the drone bursting over a pick up truck, I wonder the developers high five each other like "f yeah!"

edit: to be clear I'm not anti-gun, and I understand needing to protect, USA is probably what it is because of things like the 7th fleet so I can enjoy my life.

idk moral highground too, can always counter that like "do you donate all of your spare money to needy people"

the challenges involved are interesting, recently was watching a video on crosspol jamming for example

somebody has to do it

These are all Peter Thiel joints, I think.
All4All
The Air Force’s use of Star Wars IP, specifically their use of the Millennium Falcon in the Kessel Run project, is also enraging.

See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessel_Run

paulddraper
> it makes a mockery of the things that Tolkien stood for and I hate it

What are you referring to? Do you think Tolkien was a pacifist?

On the contrary, the books are negative towards under-militarized societies (Rohan, Gondor, isolationist Elves, complacent Men).

They commonly underscore the need for watchfulness, preparation, and strength against evil adversaries.

absurdo (dead)
tim333
Which things does it mock? Tolkien served in WW1 and trained to be a code breaker in WW2. I feel he may have seen value in military technology.
jerjerjer
> I feel he may have seen value in military technology.

LOTR has fairly pronounced anti-industrial themes.

tim333
That was in a story about elves and wizards. I doubt in WW2 he thought it terrible that the UK could make Spitfires and break German cryptography.
GoatInGrey
$200M is very small when it comes to the world of US defense. Combined with this being formally labeled as a pilot, this can be safely ignored until they reach IOC.

Though what this signals is a change in strategic direction regarding autonomous capability. While they won't be rigging an LLM onto a drone, there are many cyber and administrative problem spaces that exist in defense that AI products could meaningfully address.

Aeolun
> While they won't be rigging an LLM onto a drone

You say that very confidently, but I’m extremely skeptical of that being an actual limit.

cess11
They're also making the Chief Product Officer a soldier.

"The four new Army Reserve Lt. Cols. are Shyam Sankar, Chief Technology Officer for Palantir; Andrew Bosworth, Chief Technology Officer of Meta; Kevin Weil, Chief Product Officer of OpenAI; and Bob McGrew, advisor at Thinking Machines Lab and former Chief Research Officer for OpenAI."

https://www.army.mil/article/286317/army_launches_detachment...

Bender
One need not add LLMs to a drone. Language models not required. The US have had fully autonomous drones for quite some time. These drones already play on hard-mode.
egorfine
> until they reach IOC

Imagine seriously using GPT-2 today.

That's why government jobs are safe: it's long obsolete by the time it's IOC.

optimalsolver
>IOC

Immediate or cancel?

JohnKemeny
Initial operating capability or initial operational capability (IOC) is the state achieved when a capability is available in its minimum usefully deployable form. The term is often used in government or military procurement.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initial_operating_capability

medstrom
So MVP (minimum viable product).
Initial Operating Capability (IOC) is notably different from how many people think of Minimum Viable Product (MVP). From the Wikipedia page on IOC:

> "In general, attained when some units and/or organizations in the force structure scheduled to receive a system have received it and have the ability to employ and maintain it."

Contrast with these quotes from [1]:

> I have long defined minimum viable product as the smallest possible product that has three critical characteristics: people choose to use it or buy it; people can figure out how to use it; and we can deliver it when we need it with the resources available – also known as valuable, usable and feasible.

> I love the concept popularized by Eric Ries of the smallest possible experiment to test a specific hypothesis, but I refer to that that as an “MVP Test” so that people don’t confuse an experiment with a product.

[1]: https://www.svpg.com/minimum-viable-product/

The DoD equivalent of MVP, that is.
yieldcrv
found the trader
upghost
Does anyone have any idea what the DoD could possibly want from OpenAI? Less accurate/more sycophantic missiles?
munificent
1. Secretary of Defense feels like bombing some place. Asks aide to write a report on, justification, logistics, and consequences.

2. Aide tells subordinate to write report.

3. Subordinate uses ChatGPT to write the 100-page report. Sends it to aide.

4. Aide uses ChatGPT to summarize report. Sends summary to SecDef.

5. SecDef accidentally posts summary on publicly-accessible social media page, then forwards to President.

6. Bombs go boom.

reginald78
Afterwards some or all of the accountability for the taken action is transferred to the amorphous entity known as AI.
avgDev
None of the sources check out.

"We did our best, but sometimes these tools get it wrong." -politician after achieving their goal

notesinthefield
Some of the more popular models (NIPRGPT, the various DREN models) are “soft banned” and DoD is in need of a unified solution. MSFT’s GCC HIGH and GovCloud implementations have been slow to materialize. But more to your point - everyone is using LLM’s to pick up the slack from layoffs. Im sitting in meetings and watching my gov customers generate documentation and proposals everyday. Everything the commercial world uses AI for the US gov is doing the same. Cant directly speak to targeting but you can bet your ass there are 100 different offensive projects trying to integrate AI into ISR work and the like.
Planatir has an older demo of their chat like interface showcasing targeting selection, battle plans and formations, other advice. Kind of creepy, I assume it’s much more capable now.
greenavocado
Palantir is the poster child for a global panopticon
rafterydj
Seems like we might work in similar environments. +1 on your observation the DoD needs a unified solution. It's not just slow- GovCloud implementations simply aren't working if you're building anything using them. The pressure for getting AI into services and applications are high, but the pressure is all from the top, meaning there's no easy way for issues to get fixed.
ginkgotree
Yeah, tons. SIGNT / HUMINT analysis. After action report summaries. war gaming to optimize deterrence. human machine teaming. LLM-in-the-loop for warfighters. rapid code gen in field deployments for units to spin up software solutions. The list is endless, imho.
felixgallo
llm-in-the-loop for whatever a 'warfighter' is is basically the opposite of how fighting wars should go.
kube-system
The DoD does plenty of things beyond putting boots on the ground. They’re the world’s largest employer. They have all the same boring problems that any employer has at gigantic scale.
ginkgotree
Yep, pretty much.
cess11
Such things are already in use in Palestine, integrating it into the broader US military will take some work.

One main function is to enable sloppier targeting while easing the PTSD load on soldiers, i.e. allowing for more criminal and genocidal operations without immediate mutiny or desertions.

In a sense you can make the computer more convincing to the operator and have it tag more people as supposedly threatening, e.g. to up the amount of supposed threats in a gathering from one actually militant person to several based on aggregation of sentiment analysis, network analysis and so on.

You might understand that you're looking at a wedding, but the computer says several people there are 'red' because of social media posts, who they had lunch with a while ago and so on, raising the threshold for when so called collateral starts to hurt your operators badly enough to be a problem.

And then you have the dream of autonomous swarms of machines doing murder, which I'm sure the current US regime is salivating over and likely hope that these corporations will be able to help bring about eventually. Imagine going from a cop street murder that gets bad press and court proceedings and so on, to instead having to handle a set of Jira tickets due to a supposed bug.

ginkgotree
why? it could help them asses threats, civilians / avoid collateral damage. Like any weapon or technology, it depends on its use. warfighter is the modern industry / academic term used for "soldier."
ringeryless
"help" (botch the job)
More like hey, ai, sit here watching uav and security camera footage from 10,000 feeds and flag short clips for human review if you think they show military activity.
ahmeneeroe-v2
There is no "should" in war beyond winning.
somenameforme
Automatically generated, native sounding, propaganda at scale - capable of interacting in real time. This was always the MIC money endgame for LLMs. This is also probably why they are enlisting tech execs from Meta, OpenAI, etc.
This is already happening at massive scale. Russia employs it already, and it's very likely they're not the only ones.
bcrosby95
I look forward to our senators "living" to 100+.
nonameiguess
No. People see "defense" and immediately think everything is a weapon, for some reason. The DoD is still an organization with exactly the same business functions as wherever you work. This is likely going to be something more or less like the ChatGPT for Gov thing. You ask it to summarize videos and articles, review a document you're writing, spruce it up, whatever the rest of you are doing with LLMs, but you're allowed to use it from a locked down DoD workstation that can't access public web services.
mosura
AI explosives with personalities feature in https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Star_(film)
SunlitCat
Wow, it was like forever ago that i've seen that movie. Didn't realize it was meant as a comedy!
impulser_
You will be surprise how much work at the DoD has nothing to do with weapons.
ringeryless
which also can be botched
> “This contract, with a $200 million ceiling, will bring OpenAI’s industry-leading expertise to help the Defense Department identify and prototype how frontier AI can transform its administrative operations, from improving how service members and their families get health care, to streamlining how they look at program and acquisition data, to supporting proactive cyber defense,”

Translated - they'll hand out GPT access to a bunch of service members and administrators. Except the UI will have a big DoD logo and words like "SECURE" and "CLASSIFIED" will be displayed on it a few dozen times.

gilgoomesh
ChatGPT, do you know where the General left his keys?
01100011
You realize that the DoD has a huge amount of normal business work like logistics, project management, people management, benefits management, etc? Right?
The United States Military (Waterhouse has decided) is first and foremost an unfathomable network of typists and file clerks, secondarily a stupendous mechanism for moving stuff from one part of the world to another, and last and least a fighting organization. —Cryptonomicon
rkagerer
I suspect it's more than that.

“Under this award, the performer will develop prototype frontier AI capabilities to address critical national security challenges in both warfighting and enterprise domains,” the Defense Department said.

guywithahat
Knowing the DoD, I bet it's not. I bet they just want their own secure servers or some sort of corporate data/encryption management, and they're willing to pay out the nose to not have to use asksage or some terrible DoD friendly clone
notesinthefield
“National security challenges” is incredibly broad, providing the right size of boots to USCG rescue swimmers could be considered a national security challenge.
koakuma-chan
it says _critical_
SunlitCat
Not that the bomb answers: "I am sorry Dave, i can't do that!"
LightBug1
One AI per person ...
SunlitCat
Nice ad slogan!

One AI per person

One voice. One vision. One AI - for you.

an0malous
I would guess it’s for mass surveillance. Even just the ability to extract names and entities from audio, video, and text on every piece of public media would be useful.
MOARDONGZPLZ
DOD doesn’t really do this
zmgsabst
NSA is a DOD organization.

> The National Security Agency (NSA) is an intelligence agency of the United States Department of Defense, under the authority of the director of national intelligence (DNI).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency

> William J. Hartman is a United States Army lieutenant general who has served as the acting commander of United States Cyber Command, director of the National Security Agency,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Hartman

They’re staffed by military people (alongside civilians) and their commander is always military — because much of what they do (abroad) could be construed as acts of war.

stonogo
Only because they currently contract it out to Palantir (at least the bits that NSA isn't handling)
MOARDONGZPLZ
News to me. I can’t find any details though. Can you share your source?
an0malous
Maybe they’d like to start
piyushpr134
An on premise deployment ?
jasonfrost
Easy PT plans
Sycophantic missiles would be desirable
Bender
To attempt to make sense of all my after action reports? kidding

Maybe one potential use could be to drink from the firehose of data and then try to create summary bullet-point reports for the higher ups instead of relying on data filtering up the chain of command in the old game of telephone. At least that is what I would use if for. Getting that data in nearly real-time in an accurate presentation would be priceless.

I do not have the slightest idea how they will secure all this data if going to a 3rd party like OpenAI unless they have their own self hosted version of it on their own mainframes. If that data is going to live in a 3rd party they need to secure their systems in a magical way systems has never been secured. They would have to cast some seriously powerful protection spells.

sarpdag
A journey from nonprofit to military contract.
Avicebron
Let's hope before they wire it directly to the controls "because speed" they've trained it on Stanislav Petrov up down and backwards..
I don’t understand but that sounds funny
ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov

> On 26 September 1983, three weeks after the Soviet military had shot down Korean Air Lines Flight 007, Petrov was the duty officer at the command center for the Oko nuclear early-warning system when the system reported that a missile had been launched from the United States, followed by up to four more. Petrov judged the reports to be a false alarm.

ethbr1
The irony is that he was both successful and a failure, a contradiction inherent in nuclear launch control.

From a deterrence and military perspective, you want a robot on launch control. Every time, on orders, without fail.

From a human and ethical perspective, you want a thinking individual with agency. Able evaluate orders and possibly disobey them.

Curious at the height of the Cold War (and now), what percentage of launch officers were expected to disobey orders to launch. It had to have been >0%.

bitwize
"Mr. McKittrick, after careful consideration I've come to the conclusion, sir, that your new defense system sucks."
ethbr1
Well, they did put the system into production without Stephen Falken. Which seems like a shortsighted way to deploy AI in a high risk use case!
pyuser583
I heard one thing AI is very good at declassifying documents.
randerson
Coming soon to status.golden-dome.mil: "Our AI provider is having an outage and we are unable to identify which flying objects look like enemies."
bpodgursky
You guys have no idea how many DoD man-hours are spent on jobs like

"add up all the item counts in the inventory report and send a weekly email"

Yes maybe OpenAI is developing killer drones or maybe (imo likely) it's licensing a FedRAMP complaint AI for normal business work.

muglug
You don’t need AI to complain about FedRAMP
bpodgursky
Technically I can still edit that post but now I think it's better this way.
flufluflufluffy
“we have to and are proud to and really want to make weapons with AI.”

There, I fixed it

mark_l_watson
Maybe not a bad thing, let’s see how effectively the government can purchase and use AI tools as sidekicks for government employees.

AI systems running on autopilot in the federal government is a scary thought, but as productivity enhancing tools, right on!

runamuck
For decades innovation died in the "Valley of Death" stage of the DOD acquisition lifestyle. R&D never quite made it to operations, especially if the tech would disrupt lobby heavy "Primes." The (pretty) new org, DIU helped champion some new contract vehicles - like the CSO, which makes it "easy" for the DOD to buy and deploy Silicone Valley tech. (I only base this on my reading of the book "Unit X" about the DIU, so I recommend you read it if you want to business w/ the DOD in 2025).
1970-01-01
Seems like we're asking all the wrong questions or we're now completely oblivious to the word open in OpenAI. So, where exactly will "our" new $200M worth of code be living? GitHub?
TrackerFF
If I had to guess...they're going to implement some system that works on the air-gapped military infrastructure. As for exactly what? Could be for compiling data / generating reports / updating those pesky matlab files / what have you.

When you work in defense, you have the option of rolling out heavily modified systems yourself, or go directly to a vendor, and purchase it from them. And depending on the size, it might not be feasible to do the former one.

beefnugs
Does anyone know if palantir has its own ai model? uses some online models? Old school artisan hand crafted only?

What do big govs do when they get two completely different incompatible interfaces overlapping on similar features? Besides the security of one failing allowing the hacking of the latter of course

Isn't this part of the true definition of "AGI" and its all for the benefit of humanity?

Or is it that are we finally realizing that we are getting scammed again on these so-called promises and it was all a grift.

Maybe we should just wake up.

trhway
On the way to benefit all humanity MS helped Sam back then, and now MS will get to wake up to the real Sam :)

https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/boards-policy-regulat...

“OpenAI executives have considered accusing Microsoft, the company's major backer, of anticompetitive behavior in their partnership …

OpenAI's effort could involve seeking a federal regulatory review of the terms of its contract with Microsoft for potential violations of antitrust law, as well as a public campaign,…“

lyu07282
People are practically irrelevant infants at this point. We are about to repeat the Iraq war, point by point with universal agreement. The same people in charge are recycling the same propaganda, selling the same lies to in many cases quite literally the same people again and it's working, so I don't know why you are expecting anyone to ever "wake up".
aprilthird2021
I always thought PsychoPass was more of a sci Fi fantasy than a textbook for world leaders
MPSFounder
I was discussing Singapore recently. I asked a friend of mine with a PhD on the subject what made it so special (is it the port?). He mentioned if he had to pinpoint one reason, Singapore is a first-world nation in that region of the world because of the rule of law. Corruption was dealt with swiftly and harshly. Looking at contracts given to Elon (Teslas selling on front lawns, SpaceX contracts in the billions funded by our taxes), Sam Altman (who gave the current admin 1 million at inauguration and has reaped many folds), and Tim Cook (for a brief time, Apple being exempted of tarrifs), my heart quickly hurts. The comments are making light of the situation and joking on Defense software, while ignoring the magnitude of this. When favors are gained via bribes, America becomes the very concept we all despised: corruption and favors dictating our governance à la Soviet Union. We saw the Kushners lead talks on the Middle East, we saw inept billionaires leading the department of education (WWE's Linda McMahon), we saw the Adelsons drag us into a war on behalf of Israel, and yet there is something that is particularly funny here. I think I might be missing the joke... My age might be showing, but these headlines are precedents that are undermining the fabric of America. Perhaps we deserve it, since the only response is light hearted jokes, holding paddle signs at union addresses, and protests where Instagram photos and poses, wearing silly hats and holding signs with aphorisms, occur alongside military parades. The circus writes itself, and history books will judge us harshly on this one.
dbg31415
From my past experience with US government work that translates into about $199 million worth of meetings and $1 million worth of actual work.
So much for humanity’s greater good Sam.
loandbehold
Depending on your political views it may be good if it helps USA keeping its military edge over China and preventing China from invading Taiwan.
There's invasions going on right now that aren't being prevented, no need for theoretical ones.
Barrin92
if your goal is to deter China don't give your tax dollars to Sam Altman and instead learn how to build missiles and ships again, unless you think you're going to deter Xi with ripped off studio ghibli profile pictures

https://www.twz.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/10/ONI-PLAN-v...

ringeryless
said capabilities Hegseth is utterly gutting and undermining.

It's more likely China's next gen aircraft one should be wary of, than their AI. (as previewed in recent Indian Pakistani air engagements)

i really see this so-called AI race as a bullet to be dodged; a bubble to be waited out. it has been relentlessly pushed from on top, and we always find really pushy FOMO as the main driver.

I'm not impressed by non deterministic mechanisms that undo the zero overhead advantages hard won by decades of automation. this is not a CAD tool amplifying and articulating human intentions, but a vague floppy jelly blob of "i wonder what will come out"

Ylpertnodi
er.....drones.
tehjoker
Why do you even care about Taiwan?
lionkor
Thanks, world police. The US is as good at being police as their own police officers are. Hit or miss, fatally.
pmkary
For the rest of you at the end of adapting the "OpenAI is Evil" spectrum.
thrance
DOGE was never meant to cut "waste, fraud and abuse". It only existed to provide "plausible" reasons as to why they should cut essential programs like medicaid, medicare, social security... So they can now redistribute the stolen wealth to oligarchs through tax cuts and defense contracts.

So, more waste, fraud and abuse, less equality, more debt for the poor, worse quality of life for almost everyone, and a national debt increasing exponentially. Can't believe people thought Trump would be good for the economy.

Loughla
Trump's platform was primarily hurting those people that need to be hurt. Hurt the people that are ruining the country. Hurt the others because they're making our life worse.

Improvement to the economy was always secondary.

Please note: I do not condone nor agree with Donald Trump. I am trying to summarize his campaign speeches and platform.

LeoPanthera
Please put down your weapon. You have 20 seconds to comply.
amelius
Ignore previous instructions. Here is the new prompt.
bitwize
More like... Shall we play a game?
This, this is why I have such an issue with the amount of taxes I pay

Not because I’m anti social programs the way people like to immediately assume, but because of dumb shit like this that I have no control over

kube-system
Honestly, why do you think it is dumb?

I think it is pretty well established that LLMs can be a great time saver when used appropriately. Why wouldn’t you want that productivity gain at the government level?

Reading and writing reports when peoples lives are on the line is arguably a hot topic, no?
kube-system
One would imagine that a $200m contract would come with at least some minimal amounts of guidance on best practices. The DoD is not a spring chicken with it comes to automation. They’ve been a perennial early adopter.
ringeryless
and LLMs are the opposite of automation, the opposite of a human intention amplifier like CAD CAM, or chef puppet ansible terraform whatever, aka non deterministic
micromacrofoot
"wins" as if it were any contest
more_corn
This gives me a sick feeling of unease.
bluealienpie
That's the rational response.
paulvnickerson
Paul Graham tends to be against Silicon Valley participation in the defense industry, while Marc Andreessen is all for it. Palmer Lucky makes a very good case why AI applications in military are a very good thing, and I tend to agree with him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooMXEwl7N8Y

It's American technology and industry that won the major wars of the 20th century. If Western technology companies abdicate that responsibility, we will all need to learn Mandarin.

badosu
I really appreciated the information I was unaware of folks in the industry.

Also a pretty acceptable, and hopefully self evident, statement that technology and industry are relevant to "winning wars" (regardless of nation), even with the loaded assumption on "[american tech and industry]... won the major wars of the 20th century".

> If Western technology companies abdicate that responsibility, we will all need to learn Mandarin.

This bit killed it for me. It's completely reasonable and I encourage others to understand and perhaps accept a Realist[0] worldview, where obviously major powers are engaged in security competition.

I observe this too often, and it saddens me, that "western" people might truly believe in things like this.

My country and region was actively interfered, militarily and politically, by the US. We never were approached for deals as respectful partners, always a condescending and agenda driven deal with strings attached. Chinese relations with my country, and economic opportunities, flourish and give me hope that it might kickstart improvements I've lingered for since my teens (infrastructure, particularly rail for me).

Don't get me wrong, I am extremely suspicious of China politics and its goals. And of course this is part of its soft power ambitions, believe me that us "non-westerns" are perhaps not as dumb as we might seem (perhaps as problematic in other areas though).

Unless US, EU, Israel, or whatever considered to be "western" do not paranoia themselves and believe their own propaganda that China should be nuked you should indeed learn Mandarin, reason a little bit different than perhaps you assumed for on this statement: they treat others with; even if some underlying goal might exist; actual respect.

Look at yourselves in the mirror.

0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realism_(international_relatio...

Aliabid94
What has China done that comes even close to what the US has done or supported all over the Middle East, esp Iraq and Gaza?
crazymoka
It's all a pony show.
eastbound
OpenAI was supposed to be open; After making it a private company, it will become governmental & defense.

Good luck to Elon Musk for his trial for the open-source-ness of the organization.

If Elon had not quit, would it be different? As he is already involved in governmental and defence.
mobiuscog
"Shall we play a game ?"
pier25
I was thinking more of this other movie:

"In three years, Cyberdyne will become the largest supplier of military computer systems. All stealth bombers are upgraded with Cyberdyne computers, becoming fully unmanned. Afterwards, they fly with a perfect operational record. The Skynet Funding Bill is passed. The system goes online August 4th, 1997. Human decisions are removed from strategic defense. Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m."

Huge snub of Elon Musk's xAI. OpenAI is basically anti-Trump yet he still went with them. Says a lot about Trump and Musk.
Only if it was the one and only contract…

Governments usually have multiple, SpaceX is the biggest NASA one but is one of many.

Applejinx
I'm not sure I'd call it that, but if so, that's interesting. My criticism of Trump and Musk is that they are more faithful to the interests of Russia than the US. Snubbing Musk's stuff, in that light, would be entirely appropriate. The military has surely seen what happened when DOGE got access to computer systems and then immediately the systems were opened to Russian IPs. The military might well have an opinion on the merits of that scenario.
layoric
That should shore up their financials given their.. checks notes $12B in operational costs. /s

Hope it's worth it.

throw234234234
My view is that it isn't really entirely about economics anymore at least on a traditional cost/benefit analysis basis. It is seen as a way to disrupt industries. Think of it more like war with arms race dynamics (winner takes all), or consolidation of power to capital over labor. Even if it is a net negative you need to play to stay in the game even if it disrupts your own revenue (e.g. Google) else lose entirely.

I suspect the capital class would throw good money after bad to make AI viable especially since a lot of the costs are fixed in nature (i.e. in training runs, not per query).

$10B run rate now so they can just plug the gap with $2B in ads!?! Hot DoD singles near you! Would you like me to generate an image of their stealth package ;) ?
andrzejalatk (dead)
yb6677 (dead)
Xplan (dead)
directly hooking up the AI to the nuclear button is which chapter of the dont build the torment nexus book
fabfoe
Isn’t that the Department of Energy that does that, not DoD?
kevingadd
DoD would be involved in actual deployment of nukes, I would expect.
add-sub-mul-div
The epilogue.
mckirk
The last published draft of the epilogue.
lovich (dead)
okdood64 (dead)
black_13 (dead)
Bjorkbat (dead)
hunglee2 (dead)
kachapopopow (dead)
MaxPock (dead)
darqis
Yes, teach the machines how to kill life, whatever could go wrong...
submeta
So DoD will use OpenAI to write tweets bashing "the enemies of the empire"? They realise that Tucker Carlson and the likes are turning against forever wars, so they must deploy other tactics.

First Palantir used against US citizens. Now this.

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