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The NSF budget is ~$10billion. That's about half of NASA's, 1.2% of the DoD's, 0.5% of the discretionary budget ($1.7 trillion).

Why is this the focus of the admin? Science is one of the few things the US is doing well.


I'm not the first one to see parallels to the Cultural Revolution. Policies like purging the intelligentsia and sending educated urban people to go work in the fields weren't motivated by any thought out plan, but by an irrational sense of resentment against "elites" and a desire for "purity".
"The Disturbing Rise of MAGA Maoism" [The Atlantic]:

https://archive.is/j0lGD

This probably won't end with millions of Americans starving to death, but I'm sure the administration is hard at work looking for ways to destroy our seed corn.

I'm glad you mentioned this. I've heard analogies to the Cultural Revolution a few times in recent weeks and it's spot on.
Arts/academia/sciences are being disciplined for thought crimes and will learn one way or another through this coercion to bend the knee, it explains the crackdown on student protests against Israeli genocide, science funding, the arts takeover, using all the federal levers of funding and immigration.
There are other parallels, such as using young indoctrinated students being used as political weapons. DOGE for example.
The focus is robbing the treasury to give tax breaks to the rich.
Trump said yesterday he wants to raise taxes on people earning over $2.5MM[1]

People on the left are going to be caught totally flat-footed if they don't pull their head out of their bubble. Trump is a populist president. He was elected by working class individuals and so far he has shown every intent of following through for them. People on the left don't recognize it because they don't recognize the tools that right wing people use to stimulate the working class.

Right now, if Trump has his way, people under $150k will pay no income tax, no tax on tips, increased tax on millionaire earners, and tariffs to shield American blue collar jobs.

Trump is dangerous because he is an idiot and recklessly pulling levers. He is clearly bent on the idea of abolishing democracy so he can be the king of America savior of the factory worker.

He is clearly not working for billionaires when he tanked the stock market and spiked bond rates playing his tariff game. Stop using that dog whistle because it makes it clear you are ungrounded from what is happening, unless all you care about is praise from other detached people.

[1]https://www.ft.com/content/93a064db-624d-413f-a751-0b957f8e3...

> tariffs to shield American blue collar jobs

Except that Trump's tariffs are causing massive financial uncertainty for small/medium-size businesses. If you want to onshore manufacturing and production, and specifically build up the blue-collar class, you don't implement tariffs immediately and unilaterally. You plan for them to be implemented over time and give businesses the opportunity to shift their procurement and production to domestic sources.

When you implement tariffs with no warning, the only businesses that can absorb those increased costs are the largest businesses. Then those large businesses can also start to buy up every other business, or at least outcompete on price long enough to monopolize the market.

As I said,

>Trump is dangerous because he is an idiot and recklessly pulling levers

Trump says everything basically and then just repeats what his MAGA crowd cheers the loudest about. "Trump said..." isn't a meaningful indicator of his intent, his beliefs, or his "plan".
> Trump said yesterday he wants to raise taxes on people earning over $2.5MM[1]

This has been countered better elsewhere, but the gist is that this proposed taxation is for posturing only -- it's taxes on wages, not on income, and the rich don't get their wealth from wages.

Seeing as the majority of words coming out of Trump are hyperbole or just straight up lies.. well believe it when it’s written into law.
Not sure why you're downvoted. It's part of Trumps schtick. He says contradicting ideas, and since everyone knows he lies, people pick the idea they want to believe. Pretty wild actually.
Where's Trump's socialized medicine plan? That's by far the most populist desire of populist America. It's very easy to get caught up in the name of things and not look at it substantively, which is what you seem to be attacking the other poster for.

Trump might have a populist appeal, but it doesn't make him a populist. The weight of Trump's actions and promises lie in all this deportation and culture war nonsense, not actually populist solutions to popular problems. None of these cuts are going to benefit the American populace at all. I doubt there will be a reduction in the taxes most Americans pay (this is just some new rhetoric from Trump, likely stemming from his horrible approval ratings because his administration is operating like shit), but there is already a reduction in the services populist America receives like social security and medicare.

The idea that a politician who seems to fundamentally want to destroy the mechanical functions of the government, operate an executive branch that is beyond the reproach of the courts, and privatize America's crucial social programs, does not comport with populism.

I don't even think the notion that Trump isn't working for billionaires because he tanked the stock market even makes sense. Did you not see the video where he points to his friend who made hundreds of millions that day? While smiling, joking, laughing? He's letting his best friends do inside trades on the huge market-moving moves Trump makes in the news and you think it's somehow not cronyism? I'm sorry, but your intuitions are off.

As I mentioned:

>People on the left don't recognize it [populism] because they don't recognize the tools that right wing people use to stimulate the working class.

I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole because it takes years to escape the ideological camp you grew into. But suffice to say, both sides ultimately want the same things and disagree on the route to take to that destination (while telling their base that obviously they are right, and obviously the other side is just evil).

I'm not sure how your post doesn't fall for exactly what you claim to be criticizing. You do not engage with the substance of anything I said and instead just name call.

I'm not talking about the route, I'm talking about the destination. A socialized medical plan is incredibly popular on both sides of the political spectrum and polls well with Trump's supporters. That's not an avenue, that's a destination. I have a feeling you will twist this around and try to make it how it can either be served by market forces or the gov't and that's just "idealogical" but populism is an ideology which I am accusing you of not understanding. You didn't engage with that. You just repeated your premise.

I don't particularly care about anything Trump says. He says a lot of things. A lot of what he says is just outright lies. A lot of what he says is just to make a particular audience happy at a particular point in time, and ends up having little relation to any actions he ends up taking. Even when it seems likely that something he says is something he actually wants to do, he'll walk it back in a heartbeat and pretend the opposite was his position all along, if he believes doing so will make him look better.

What actually matters is what he does. And nothing that he has done suggests to me that he will actually push for tax increases on the rich. It would be great to be proven wrong here, but I'm not holding my breath.

(Regardless, Trump can't raise taxes on anyone. Congress does that. On tax policy, it's not clear that even the MAGA fools in Congress will play ball if it upsets the rich people in their states.)

Yes but:

> He is clearly not working for billionaires...

Not working for Wall St or Main St.

It's a food fight between opposing elites. ("The grass suffers when elephants fight.")

As you surely know, some do advocate crashing our economy, enabling them to seize even more power. They use shibboleths like dark enlightenment, free enterprise, taxation is theft, yadda yadda.

He is a billionaire himself, his admin has the most billionaires of any admin ever. He passed tariffs, which are a direct tax on the working class, he passed massuve tax cuts profiting mostly the wealthy, he cut every welfare programs which only benefit the poor.
> Trump said yesterday he wants to raise taxes on people earning over $2.5MM[1]

He also said he would end the Ukraine war on day 1.

> He is clearly not working for billionaires when he tanked the stock market and spiked bond rates playing his tariff game. Stop using that dog whistle because it makes it clear you are ungrounded from what is happening, unless all you care about is praise from other detached people.

Of course not. Why would anyone get the idea that Trump is working for billionaires? It's not as if he hawked cars on the White House lawn for the world's richest man.

Speaking of ungrounded, detached people..

You don't have to be a billionaire to purchase a cabinet position in the Trump White House, but it helps.

Trump makes the billionaires work for _him_.

>Trump said yesterday he wants to raise taxes on people earning over $2.5MM[1]

Great, so he won't need to cut the NSF then?

According to the national debt clock, we're at around 36.8T in debt. I don't know if that's his motivation or not, but we're not starting all this from a balanced budget.
That's not a reason to cut anything in particular, especially something as cheap in raw cost and valuable in ROI, among federal programs, as the NSF.
I'll believe it when I see it.

"Trump said..." is the precursor to winning the fooled me again award.

Trump cannot raise taxes, he only can impose tariffs under laws that Congress could rescind if they wished to, and only Congress can change tax laws. Trump also took both sides on issues while campaigning and low info voters ate it up and ignored the parts they did not like, it's the gish gallop, and Trump never stops campaigning with rallies even after winning office. Nothing that he says matters, it's what actions they have taken that matter. The bill in Congress now does not have anything like what he said yesterday about raising taxes on millionaires.
To own the libs, to stick it to the “experts”.

It’s sad, but that’s the whole thing.

> Why is this the focus of the admin? Science is one of the few things the US is doing well.

Real answer: universities are "woke" and liberal. This is their punishment.

Destroying science research is just collateral damage.

The thought leaders within the Trump administration simply hate academia. They've said it out loud over and over. Folks like Yarvin or Rufo would like the university system in the US to be reduced to smoldering ash and replaced with ideologically focused universities that exist to teach particular religious, social, and economic values.

The issue is not that they don't like the NSF in general or that science funding is breaking the bank. The issue is that people they hate rely on the NSF.

This is a pretty old belief system amongst conservatives. God and Man at Yale was published seventy years ago and argued that universities should actively teach that Christ is divine and that free market capitalism is the best thing ever at all times and in all venues.

There are very few places an administration can cut costs without touching entitlements. Until voters stop punishing politicians for raising the retirement age or trimming wasteful healthcare spending, they will cut the discretionary budget.
Social Security doesn't come out of the general budget.
Who cares? It contributes to the deficit, which is what matters for fiscal policy.
Social security is entirely self funded, has a large surplus in the form of the SS Trust Fund (that’s being spent down) and has contributed $0 to the deficit or debt. You should really learn the basic facts about something like that if you’re going to support cuts to the program.
The SS Trust Fund is numbers on a spreadsheet. It doesn't matter. It's gone and spent.

The question is about real actual resource distribution. SS is drawing more resources from young people than it is giving back. That's an actual problem, no matter how many tabs you add to your excel spreadsheet.

Where did you learn that it contributes to the deficit?
It does not.
Then what about the additional trillion dollars awarded to the Pentagon?? Did this come for free?
Society isn't going back to old people eating dogfood, a child labor workforce, and people being denied basic healthcare. Adjust to reality and make it work, or the masses will make it work but it won't benefit anyone how we get there.
"The masses" are going to spontaneously organize improved state capacity?
[flagged]
Some of your comments in this subthread were arguably unfairly downvoted and flagged, as you were making valid points, but you fanned the flames with some activating language, most notably this:

> Lol what an internet tough guy.

Please take care to read and observe the guidelines, particularly these ones:

Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.

Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Science sometimes says things that disagree with MAGA ideology and so it must be destroyed.
A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money.

More seriously, the NSF isn't the focus of the admin. They're going through every federal agency making cuts, not singling out this one in particular.

Unlike a lot of government spending research spending provably increases revenues by more than expenditures.
Citation?
> They're going through every federal agency making cuts, not singling out this one in particular.

That's BS. They are already bragging about raising defense spending.

Defense is squarely a government responsibility and concern. Funding research less so, not that there aren't good arguments for doing it.
The part in the constitution about "promote the general Welfare" (first sentence) definitely depends on funding research.
defense is squarely not a government responsibility. not federal at least. state militias and small arms in the second amendment are respectively nainle for US defense
An agency that fails its audit 7 years in a row gets more money.
> They are already bragging about raising defense spending.

Sure, but that's the exception. The cuts to the NSF are the norm.

A $100B exception that wipes out all of their own-the-libs cuts
The amount they plan on raising defense spending by more than cancels all other things we plan to save, even before considering tax cuts. At the current rate, the national deficit (rate of growth of national debt) is expected to be about double what it was (on average, over four years) compared to the last presidency.

Not to mention that the Department of Defense has never passed a financial audit in the last seven years and money frequently disappears into contractors who are known to delay projects on purpose to make more money.

It only sounds like an exception because you group it into one big chunk.

If you actually split up the line items to the point where NASA and the NSF are separate it would be 9 exceptions or more.

What about the Pentagon? Didn't they want to give it an additional trillion?
Trump has been compromised, who ever is actually running the show is hell bent on destroying the US.
Less public funding -> less competition for private sector R&D, e.g. big pharma
The research that NSF funds is not in competition to private companies, it's mostly basic research. To the contrary, it's part of an important pipeline for training young scientists. And many of those later will work e.g. in pharma companies.
I doubt that - pharma and biotech are some of the biggest benefactors of government funded research.
No. Pharma acquires these gov-funded companies. The gov de-risks them for pharma.
Big pharma has thrived by letting public sector R&D do basic discovery that's high risk, and then pick up the successful projects as part of public-private commercialization programs.

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