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So don't make it then? If a particular vendor's product isn't in line with the company's mission, the CEO is the one to make the call to proceed with manufacturing.

edit: it's not for me and I can totally just not buy one, but if one identified with their original mission and sees this as betrayal of that, it'd be hard to justify getting a framework laptop when it's their turn to upgrade.


> So don't make it then?

You presume to have internalized Framework's core-values more than the founder/CEO? The box is not my cup of tea,but they are free to experiment.

I presume that my core values, which I might know just a teeny tiny bit, align with what the corporation has stated as their values. But at the end of the day, the"core values" of a corporation are just some words on a webpage on the journey to more profit and I mean, hey, I like money too, so it's not like I can really fault them for pivoting.
Modularity is not a binary choice - it's a spectrum with tradeoffs.

One might maliciously (IMO) argue that the single motherboard in Framework products that you presumably find perfectly fine, could have been designed as several interconnected ones, that are individually replaceable. On the surface, it can seem like an unimpeachable criticism, but once you consider the cost in complexity, performance and BOM, then the "less modular" single-motherboard option becomes much more reasonable.

Framework went with soldered memory because that was the only way they could hir the memory bandwidth performance numbers they wanted for this product in the context of the segment it occupies. If you value the ability to replace/upgrade RAM over 256Gb/s, then this is not the product for you. If you think Framework shouldn't compete in this segment due to a confluence of ideological reasons and the technical limitations of slotted RAM, then the CEO disagrees with you, as do the future buyers of the compact desktop

This is literally the same product they've been selling with just one more component soldered on (memory). I think it's a bit of a stretch to call it a "pivot".
you're right, it is just one component, but please tell me, how many computers have you used that have no RAM?
What does "having no RAM" have to do with it"

The question is how much different is a motherboard with soldered CPU vs. CPU and memory soldered. You seem to be of the opinion that it's a completely different product category, I'm of the opinion they're more the same than different. I don't remember the last time I didn't upgrade all three components at once.

> You presume to have internalized Framework's core-values more than the founder/CEO?

His reaction in the livestream was along these lines when he semi-jokingly said "I'm surprised no one from the audience threw something at me"

At a larger event I would have kind of expected a "boo", but it seemed like a rather small gathering where most people knew each other. Unlike the live 12k Youtube chat, that was very surprised and disappointed at times.

You can't argue with laws of physics at some point. Every nanometer counts at those frequencies. You can't put your RAM too far at some point in which a physical socket will be a deal breaker.

Also, Framework doesn't need to make something for you to "build a PC". PCs are extremely modular already. They are solving a different problem here.

Compared to the most popular alternative (mac mini / mac studio), it's still way more inline with the framework mission.

You can still buy the motherboard version and use your own case and PSU. That's better than not just the macs, but also many other mini PCs.

And considering the chip, it's still the most modular way to buy a Ryzen 395 for the foreseeable future.

I think their ethos is more about being user- and developer- friendly.

RAM upgrades at reasonable prices, being able to buy the main board sans case, and supporting multiple OSes all point in that direction, without strictly being modular

"Details of Framework’s Environmental Ethos and Long Term Mission": https://knowledgebase.frame.work/details-of-framework-s-envi...

> July 7 2022 3:26pm

> Framework’s mission is to fix consumer electronics - and we are doing that by respecting you and the planet. We have put this vision into everything we do by providing you with amazing products that are meant to last as long as possible by letting you upgrade and modify them over that lifetime to support your specific needs.

> Our mission is to reduce the amount of waste that is generated and energy that is expended and reduce our overall consumer electronics footprint, while providing a better product than you can get anywhere else. This includes using post-consumer-recycled aluminum and plastic in our products as well as recycled and recyclable packaging.

> We have just started this journey, and we are continually looking for ways to reduce our footprint and be even healthier for the environment. We’re happy to get ideas and suggestions on how we can do this. The Framework Community is a great place to share this.

> RAM upgrades at reasonable prices…

The RAM is not upgradable.

Parent clearly means upgrade at time-of-purchase.

FTA:

> Because the memory is non-upgradeable, we’re being deliberate in making memory pricing more reasonable than you might find with other brands.

The bit you quoted back to me says, "the RAM is non-upgradable", which is what I said. Your interpretation (that the parent commenter misspoke) is more generous, though, so let's go with that.
I disagree. Modularity is good, but if there are real technical reasons why it is not possible (like in thise case), then it could be a worthwile compromise.
that's a fair point! soldered on ram currently has more performance than socketed. it's definitely a compromise and I'm being an uncompromising motherfucker. It's not my company though and I'm just some rando on the Internet expressing an opinion.
They saw an underserved niche and went for it. Based on the wait time for their site seems to be working for them.
They just got me as a new customer with this AI miniPC. It's the first Framework product I've bought.
I'm thinking of buying one as well, and I never would've purchased any of their other products. But I have to agree with people who say this goes against Framework's mission.
If you're not the audience, you're not the audience. Don't buy it. But a whole bunch of folks will be interested in this, and it lets framework dip their toes in the "not laptops" market without going bankrupt over it.
It's not for you then

FWIW I find the small form factor combined with the CPU and high-powered integrated GPU very appealing. I don't think I could build something with this form factor using off the shelf parts (someone correct me if I'm wrong)... it would end up needing a larger dedicated GPU.

I suspect their competition isn't actually people who build their own PCs, but people in the market for Mac Pros — they have a number of benefits over Apple here.

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