I’ve heard plenty of stories of people getting their phones stolen in public. Especially when I was in school, we’d hear of plots like kids coming up to students and asking to call their parents because they’re scared and alone only to run over to a car waiting around the corner and drive away.
You can argue it’s unnecessary, but it certainly chilled the market for stolen phones. They’re pretty obvious targets and they’re very personal. Not worrying about it as much is a big win, but some people have other priorities and that’s ok too.
I never, ever argued against "actions to stop it". I argued against this action. I never argued that my anecdata that my phone has never been stolen means that all action against theft are unnecessary, but I believe it is good cause for me to want a phone that doesn't have excuse-driven anti-consumer anti-repair garbage built into it to "prevent theft" that has never been my problem.
I am, however, arguing that this is not how we should be dealing with problems like this. It, in fact, should be illegal.
My counter is that a primary reason you never had a stolen phone is the anti-theft solutions implemented by private companies.
Personally, I think removing the incentives to theft is a great way to reduce it, and this is particularly effective. Sure repair-ability would be nice, but I repair it so infrequently and it’s sufficiently cheap that I don’t mind. As an example, expecting the police to successfully hunt and remedy every petty theft of all the phones that would be stolen instead would be a lot less resource efficient for society. We have enough crime as is that the police have better things to do than fail to find a lost phone.
Once again, no I didn't. Hell, the snippet "Apple shouldn’t solve this" doesn't even appear in my text.
At this point, I'm beginning to wonder if maybe you're being deliberate in doing this, because I don't understand the need to paraphrase me. If I didn't think all of those details and qualifiers were necessary, I would've just left them out myself. And while I understand that my writing is not succinct, it's not like I wrote a novel, so why not just quote what I actually said? Otherwise, it feels like I'm just having to explain how my position differs from the one you're arguing against.
> My counter is that a primary reason you never had a stolen phone is the anti-theft solutions implemented by private companies.
I will quote myself:
> I never, ever argued against "actions to stop it". I argued against this action.
Note that while I have owned a couple iPhones, the last iPhone I owned only had one "paired part" that I am aware of. I am not arguing against iCloud locking as a concept. I am not arguing against all anti-theft measures.
I can see why someone may miss this from the first comment I made, since well, I didn't explicitly say that part. However, at this point, I don't understand what else I can say.
> Personally, I think removing the incentives to theft is a great way to reduce it, and this is particularly effective. Sure repair-ability would be nice, but I repair it so infrequently and it’s sufficiently cheap that I don’t mind. As an example, expecting the police to successfully hunt and remedy every petty theft of all the phones that would be stolen instead would be a lot less resource efficient for society. We have enough crime as is that the police have better things to do than fail to find a lost phone.
I am not suggesting police go and try to find every lost phone. I am suggesting that we have a serious societal problem and we're not really doing anything about the problem itself. The fact that police can't handle every single case suggests to me that it's completely out of control. It'd worse if this was the same for e.g. shoplifting, or breaking and entering... which it is, in some areas. But we don't accept that as "normal", and we shouldn't accept this as normal either.
I realize you were explicit about the fact that police action was just an example of something that one could do, but I find it interesting that it is the example you would go to. While a lot could be said about Japan, with far less prisoners and prosecution, they have generally a lot less issue with crimes like these in particular based on both anecdotal evidence and published statistics, yet it feels like it is a foregone conclusion that there's nothing that can be done about all of this petty theft. I call shenanigans.
Furthermore, while this may sound reasonable in an era of disposable phones and new shiny toys every year, I think it's a horrid long-term outlook. To me paired parts isn't worth it: it's a threat to sustainability and civil rights, as I think Apple's practices tend to be widely emulated regardless of whether or not the outcome for consumers is ultimately good. It's already getting harder and harder to buy computers, new or used, that do what you tell them to. Paired parts is just another dark step in the wrong direction.
In the future, Apple product launches will be measured in the volume increase they make to landfills.
(We _do_ need laws to allow customers that can prove their purchase to unlock their parts though.)
In that world you need very little actual protection against murder because there's no incentive to do it. That's the current state of iPhones, you don't need to lock them up, use those chest pickpocket proof bags, or strap them to your wrist because no one wants to steal them.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/fcc-smartphone-theft-re...
It's much less common now, since all the major brands brick themselves when stolen (though it's starting to be common to either shoulder surf the pin, or to grab an unlocked phone out of people's hands, then rapidly reset 2FA and email passwords).
I agree with the GP comment that it should be possible to make phones theft-proof and also repairable though.
Most people haven't had their phone stolen. That doesn't mean phones aren't stolen.
(I got it back via chasing after them and a minor physical altercation. This was definitely an unwise choice on my part, because the thief was then in the news a few days later for murder.)
The societal problem is that people got used to paying over a grand for a thing that fits in their pocket.
> Nobody has ever stolen my phone.
Put yourself in the position of the thieves. You would want an easy target; one that if push came to shove that they wouldn't be able to injure or detain you. How big are you, physically?
My wife had her iPhone stolen in the north side of Chicago maybe 15 years ago - in a good area no less. Some big guy followed her to her apartment asking to make a phonecall for some made up emergency. She's 5'2" and was like 90 pounds at the time. She did the math on how it was likely to go and just handed it over, as it was late at night and she was alone. Predictably, he ran off. (As an aside, I think it's hard for men to understand exactly how vulnerable women feel in general - as ne'erdowells see them as easy targets compared to even men of similar size)
The same thief may have thought twice if it was me - because I'm a man rather closer to 6' and 200lbs. He may win that fight and get the phone, but not without me getting some licks in - an unattractive proposition, since a broken orbital or finger cuts into those profits.
There are phone theft groups at every festival of sufficient size.
A year prior https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/4-charged-with-stealing-ph...
> Four people from out of state face charges for allegedly stealing phones during Lollapalooza in Chicago over the weekend.
> ...
> When police asked Bardales about the phones, he allegedly told them he bought them at the music festival for $50 each and planned to sell them for parts, CWB Chicago reports, citing prosecutors.
https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/stolen-cell-phones-from-acl...
> AUSTIN, Texas — Austin Police are investigating an international crime ring that targeted Austin City Limits Music Festival. Authorities believe a half-dozen people worked together to steal approximately 1,000 cell phones from festival attendees. Police say five people have been arrested but more suspects are involved.
The big target here now is music festivals where teams will rove looking for vulnerable/inattentive people and get into their pockets or bags and bolt.
Someone tip toed carefully into my house while I was sleeping in it, in the Mission near Valencia St., and cat-burgled* my wife's phone off her nightstand, at around 3am. We have some pictures of his legs (?) that he took in some bathroom later that evening. Finally it winds up pinging its location at a Mission phone repair shop, which of course the guy there is saying he has no idea what we're talking about and maybe the phone is "upstairs."
We didn't report, because last time I reported someone breaking into my garage, the two SFPD officers were talking about people interested in my "printer." Nothing was stolen, because it woke me up and I yelled at them from above.
I don't really know what the economy is around stolen phones. It surely exists. I don't know why you would want to die on this hill of ignorance. It's a quintessentially social media thing to do! You have no dog in this race.
*Our cat helpfully ran out the door for fun.
I recommend using the “Screen Time” feature on iPhones to protect against this. You can basically set a _different_ 4 digit pin to access some of the settings of the iPhone, including the Apple ID one. (The setting becomes grayed out and inaccessible until you disable screen time).
But at face level… your phone is so personal that it’s pretty easy to mess with basically all of your life.
When you have someone’s unlocked phone, you can usually get access to their emails, and use that to reset most accounts. Finances, social, emails, often work etc.
Here’s the WSJ explanation if you want:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/apple-iphone-security-theft-pas...
Apple acknowledges this and seem to be ok with it [1].
[https://www.macrumors.com/2023/04/19/apple-responds-to-iphon...]
Sell me the phone that can be stolen please.