Preferences

76 points
31 comments UmYeahNo
I have a Stripe account that has been going along nicely, regular transactions at a steady but moderate pace -- a few transactions a week at a consistent amounts. I'm a one-person-shop, not a developer, and I integrate with Stripe through my invoicing software. I've been building momentum towards a new product launch that will hopefully change that transaction velocity to dozens, hopefully a couple hundred transactions per day, through a storefront.

Now, I am concerned that a significant change in velocity/volume like this is going to set off a flag with Stripe, and I fear that my Stripe account will get nuked, kill the launch, all the momentum I've been building, my reputation, and all my regular business to boot -- if I lose access to Stripe I lose a very significant portion of my business. Even if its just for a couple weeks while I'm "being reviewed".

There seem to be many threads here on HN about getting killed by Stripe without explanation, without easy recourse, without customer support or quick resolution -- especially as a small fry like me.

Are there any suggestions for a non developer, one-person-shop to avoid this seemingly common pitfall?

Why do I think I'll get flagged? In recent history had one invoice that was unusually large for my transaction history -- I landed a really good project. I feared this would set off a trigger with Stripe, and sure enough I was flagged "as a part of our ongoing account review process".

Stripe sent very vague and *very "phishy"* seeming emails. After logging into Stripe I had to give access to my bank accounts and get through a "review" of my business.

I really feared I was going to be cut off then. So, I harbor no illusions that it will happen again next time should I enjoy a modicum of unusual success. I certainly learned that in the future I have to invoice large projects in smaller incremental chunks and not in the one-lump that the client preferred.

But I don't know how to handle if the velocity of transactions changes.


aftbit
I'd suggest reaching out to Stripe support in advance, documenting that you are beginning a product launch and expect a change in volume. Just as a heads up to them basically. Also, definitely have a second choice payment processor available and integrated with your invoicing tool as a fallback. Finally, if this is at all feasible for you, be ready to deliver now and collect payment later.
jabart
I get the concern, but a lot of credit card processors will review accounts. As part of a more traditional credit card processing account you provide your average transaction and a max transaction along with bank statements for underwriting. You should reach out to Stripe and let them know your concern. Stripe and Banks work similar in the US that transactions can be held and it's normal due to Know Your Customer.

Past HN comments on Stripe the person never really said what they were selling, which is also a huge part of processing credit cards as the sponsor bank also signs off on the products that are sold as well, not just Stripe.

erikpukinskis
Yes, reviewing accounts for fraud is absolutely standard and no cause for concern in and of itself.
stop50
Its a legal requirement. Banks loose their license if they don't use KYC
Is there a list of alternatives to Stripe with a link to their API, terms, conditions? That would be helpful.
synicalx
Anecdotally I've found Braintree to be at least mostly comparable in terms of their API. But I'm not aware of a list that compares this sort of stuff.
tb_technical
The idea behind these payment processors was that they were to be like utilities.

We can't keep letting them get away with screwing the little guy like this.

joshstrange
> Now, I am concerned that a significant change in velocity/volume like this is going to set off a flag with Stripe, and I fear that my Stripe account will get nuked, kill the launch, all the momentum I've been building, my reputation, and all my regular business to boot -- if I lose access to Stripe I lose a very significant portion of my business. Even if its just for a couple weeks while I'm "being reviewed".

I'm not going to defend Stripe as I've had my fair share of frustration with them, unfortunately they are the best game in town that I can see [0]. I can comment on change in velocity/volume on the Stripe platform. I've gone from testing amounts of traffic (so <$100/mo or so), to $500-$2000/day for 2-3 months, to $20K-$40K/day for 2-3 days, to then $100K+ for 1-2 days, then back to $0-100 for ~9 months, rinse and repeat (it's software for festivals). I did all of that without needing to pre-clear anything with Stripe and without issue.

Maybe the semi-gradual ramp-up kept me under detection levels (though I was a little worried about the $20K+ days as it was 10x+ normal) but I wanted to provide a data point to you.

[0] I'm open to other options but before you comment know that the following is what I consider baseline: iOS/Android/Web SDKs that support Credit/Debit/Apple Pay/Google Pay, same or better rates as Stripe, decent docs/api, decent dashboard. I've tried alternatives and their docs are a mess, their API is confusing, their dashboards are dated/broken, their support is somehow worse than Stripe, and sometimes you find out one of their SDK's just doesn't support Credit, Debit, Apple Pay, or Google Pay. Also I need in-person hardware support (bluetooth connection to a phone/table, not wifi, not ethernet), ideally paying in-person would result in lower rates.

galdor
I'm worried about it as well (single person business, barely started). I was advised by a friend to have an account at another payment processing platform, and be ready to switch very quickly if needed.

Adyen is a possibility. I never used their services so I cannot say if they are a good alternative. But they exist, and some people swear by them.

erikpukinskis
Another alternative to fully preparing a separate billing pipeline (which could be quite a lot of work) would be to add a “free switch” you can hit which allows users to sign up m, have them confirm a plan, and gives them access to the product, to be billed at a later date.

That means that in a crisis you can still sign users up, and take a few days to sort out the billing situation.

Could save some time up front, and if Stripe ends up never causing a problem you didn’t waste effort on unneeded complexity.

wilhil
I recently saw Adyen and was interested, however, you need a minimum of £5M a year they told me :(
davidbanham
I run a platform which has many connected Stripe accounts. Collectively they’ve now transacted over $10M through the platform with very peaky seasonal patterns. I’ve seen many accounts get flagged, I’ve never ever seen one get “nuked”. They may ask for additional verification. Rarely they may place a 30 day hold on some portion of your funds. If these things happen and you feel they’re unjustified, talk to someone about it. It’s a decision that can be changed or reversed like any other. Explain the situation and demonstrate why you aren’t a risk. They’ll listen.

If you’re worried about being flagged, talk to them about your expected increase in volume _now_.

ArrayBoundCheck
I saw once a guy suggested to contact stripe for an account manager. I don't think he was very specific and I'm not sure if you can simply create a ticket or email them but I think that is a good step
tracerbulletx
Have they ever been sued for this? I'm curious if their user agreements protect them from it at all, but when these platforms destroy people's businesses it seems like the exact reason lawsuits exist.
bombcar
I'm sure their bevy of lawyers has reviewed the TOS which absolves them from anything ever.

You're better off spending the effort on having a backup replacement ready to go (or even balance between them in normal operation).

UmYeahNo OP
In order to use Stripe, you agree to use arbitration rather than courts. Pretty standard from most T&Cs for online services. So, no probably not.
rozenmd
There's Paddle, but last I heard they had strict mrr requirements
hobo_mark
How much? Can't find anything on the topic other than some people saying they could set it up without any MRR.
dividuum
They at least partially use Stripe as they credit card processor. Not sure if that indirection would be helpful.
dubcanada
It seems like you're worried about something that may happen, if you sit around worrying about everything that could possibly happen you'll never go anywhere.

If you are that worried about Stripe that it is keeping you up at night, just move off to another payment processor, sure their documentation will suck, and you may need to use some really terrible library, but besides that it's the exact same. You may even safe a few cents a transaction as Stripes fees are not that cheap.

newlpast
Switch to Clover products. They're great!
joshstrange
I've used Clover, I've coded for their POS system, I've used their API. They are far from great. They are owned by CardConnect/FirstData and CardConnect's system is garbage (I tried to switch to them from Stripe, worst mistake I ever made). I've not particular love/loyalty to Stripe but Clover is not a good alternative. Especially if you want to in-person, their terminals are disgustingly expensive and their Bolt SDK is a mess. Their support is somehow worse than Stripe.
TheSoftwareGuy
Do they have some guarentee not to ban you? Relying on reputation alone will lead to exactly the same situation
FunnyBadger
Seriously look at other payment processors.

You are overthinking this - if you have to use game theory and uncertainty to plan your relationship with a vendor (instead of picking up a phone or sending an e-mail to ask or solve your issues), you need to find a new vendor.

joecot
Mostly, just use multiple providers. There's no reason to put all your eggs with Stripe. Setting up with Paypal, Google Payments, Amazon Payments, etc, requires essentially no business overhead. Just the extra overhead of needing to setup multiple payment providers in your software.

Use multiple providers, if one shuts you down you still have other options. When you're large enough that it makes financial sense, apply for your own merchant account and use a processor like Authorize.net for that too.

Bilal_io
The issue would be subscriptions if I am not mistaken. If I allow a user to pay a monthly subscription, I am obviously going to depend on Stripe or another provider to hold the information for me, and if they deactivate my account, then I am screwed, a fallback would involve having the user come back in and give you permission to charge their other account (say stripe bans you, you want to use PayPal as a fallback). It's just bad.
joecot
Yes, this is a risk. Which is why instead of putting all your subscriptions towards one company, it is a good idea to balance your subscriptions across providers. That way, you might lose some customers or have to ask them to come sign up again, but you don't lose all or even most of them.
TrickardRixx
Is it an option to tokenize the recurring payments across both providers, but only charge on one provider at a time?

This item has no comments currently.