2
points
stiray
Joined 2,809 karma
- Sure, I am not complaining about that. Again, Sailfish OS is great (!!!!!), no doubt about it. Unfortunately, I need a daily driver instead of carrying 2 phones with me.
Once Jolla will understand that, I am prepared to get back. Until they don't, they will need to find users elsewhere. I can ditch a lot of bloat from my life, but unfortunately, ability to use public transport is not one of them.
- I am on Graphene OS now and they will really need to think of something revolutionary to get me back. No, nice GUI is not enough for all the years I have lost, desperately trying to adapt. Now, think of the normal, everyday user, not prepared to even buy a specific phone release for Sailfish. And this is how they will lose users. I consider this as constructive criticism from my side.
Believe me, I am in front row, for wanting the linux to succeed against bastardized OS as android is. But the wrong decisions are just wrong decisions, there is no excuse to it.
- They can support passtrough for bluetooth and NFC. It is not something they need to invent themself.
I cant emphasize enought how this feature is of most importance for my daily life. At 48, I am using either the bicycle or public transport for my daily commute (for 30+ years!). I can workaround it by buying a NFC card each month but very typically it is not available without considerate walk time. Not to mention banking app, but I have covered it by reversing and patching it. How many users will do that?
It is not my fault, that the world is as it is. But not supporting real life scenarios is certainly Jollas fault.
- I wouldnt recommend it.
TLDR: while the OS is great (really GREAT), the real-world compatibility is not.
I had Sailfish OS for a daily driver for two years, and OS is great (let me say that again, Sailfish IS GREAT!), but there are "the details".
Jolla is completely ignorant to needs of their users. While they do have an android layer, they are ignoring to things that are of huge importance for daily life, like bluetooth passtrough, and are important due to daily needs, for instance, bluetooth passtrough is really important for using public transport here.
FFS, I was reversing banking application and patching it to be able to use it. And actually became very good at it :D
Here is a bluetooth feature request thread, that is open for 5 years: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/bluetooth-support-in-android and being blatantly ignored.
And lets not get into details, like NFC.
So at the end you will have a great OS, incompatible with the whole world. After 2 years of suffering, I ditched Sailfish, bought Pixel and installed Graphene OS.
Once Jolla starts to listen to their customers, they are on the path to very real android contender, but unfortunately they just dont understand, that people need some features, they are not providing while the vendors wont support some exotic OS. They need to adapt, not vendors - the whole thread is full of this mentality.
The android "container" was a step into right direction but they just shouldnt abandone it and keep on supporting it, adding additional layers of compatibility.
I really hope they will change their mind at some point and prioritize compatibility, would love to ditch android and its spyware driven ecosystem completely, but sadly, Graphene OS + NetGuard is just a far better alternative until Jolla stops behaving like an infant. They are literally sabotaging themself in a worse possible way.
- Good job to the authors. I have been waiting for something like that for years.
I just dislike the scripted languages as they are a mess to handle while docker is a resource waste, not to mention golang single statically compiled binary and speed of execution.
Authors, please think really well about:
- upgrade strategies (owncloud/nextcloud were a huge mess, for long time, currently looks that nextcloud is handling it well - I have upgraded it for 2 versions and it didnt break anything)
- what external dependencies you are using, make additional layer of OS abstraction to avoid incompatibilities between various linux distributions, freebsd and windows. There isn't a lot to handle differently but once you tie yourself to linux only, it is hard to add support afterwards (try to not call external binaries that you havent installed yourself, if you must, put it into compatibility layer). If you do this one right, people will port it to different environments, if you blow it, you will have to - or you wont.
- do not rely on docker "installation", presume that it is installed directly on the system and you wont go far wrong. Treat docker just as another system. Docker is going to make you become "lazy" to not think about vital details while developing.
- do check how to handle reverse proxies gracefully, this is something everyone forgets while for any serious environment, there will be nginx frontend
- dont support all the databases, pick one and stick to it, to support it really well, including backups, upgrades and versions - sooner or later redis is going to be a must, think upfront
- make a backup system, backup before upgrades and be sure you can restore it if something goes wrong, including binaries, database,...
- make an installation/upgrade layer that doesn't depend on "run this sql script", have a well versioned database revision system that can get database from version "0.1" to "2.0" without breaking anything and migrate the data. There are hardly any database changes where database upgrade cant be handled with sql statements.
- think really well about external dependencies, dont pick it just as it is popular and you need one functionality. An example, recently I did a benchmark of 15 concurrent maps in go and the differences were huge where the fastest one was one that you can hardly find by searching while the author did things like aligning the structures with cpu cache, full of unsafe pointers etc., but beating the first selected "popular" map by 2x, and the worse by 15x+. Dont trust authors self promotion, measure it.
- try to not make it confusingly strange, you have the whole usage/administration well done with nextcloud, stick to it, dont reinvent what works, as for instance, sftpgo did and I hate every second using it.
- if something needs to be documented, think about how to implement it, in a way, that doesnt need to be documented. Over time those documented features become a huge burden for you and for users.
- please, if you dethrone nextcloud, dont become evil, like projects normally do. Get the money from where the money is (smb, corporations), spare the home users. :)
Good luck!
- Are you sure, that the code works correctly? ;)
Now, imagine, what you would do, if you never learned to read the code.
As you were always using only AI.
Anyway, coding is much simpler and easier than reading someone else's code. And I rather code it myself than spend time to actually read and study what AI has outputted. As at the end, I need to know that code works.
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At one point, my former boss was explaining to me, how they were hired by some plane making company, to improve their firmware for controlling rear flaps. They have found some float problem and were flying to meeting, to explain what the issue was. (edit:) While flying, they figured out that they are flying with plane having that exact firmware.
- I completely agree with author on LLMs. I consider AI as stock inflating noise, like nosql databases (...) were. The nosql ended, after all the hype, as sometimes usable.
I am typically buying ebooks. When I read it and figure out that ebook is rare jewel, I also buy hardcover if available.
Shoshana Zuboff’s, The Age of Surveillance Capitalism is one of those hardcovers.
Recommending reading it.
- Sure you are not interested in my complaints and I am not interested in arguing with another fanboy (there is wealth of knowledge on the internet and I am sure you are able to google a bit - but then there is no arguing with me, so no point in doing that, right?), had one IlikeKitties enough for a year. If you are interested, install GrapheneOS and compare it, and in worse case, argue with yourself.
- Good for you, I was also doing it when I was a kid. Actually was even cooking roms and removing everything that I didn't need.
Then I got my first banking app and was decompiling it on each new version, removing checks for root, "compatibility" and security checks, and compiling it back. Then another app came, this time for public transport, and I was reversing two apps, once every 2-3 months. Became quite efficient with it.
Then I deliberately bought pixel for GrapheneOS, installed it and never looked back.
As I have already mentioned: I am not using Android because I like it or I would want it. Sailfish has everything, I will ever need. For myself.
But not for living in this world.
- In your given scenario (no Google Services, no microG), compatibility is the issue.
I dont use Android because I like it. I use it because I am forced to use it, without it I cant connect to corporate VPN, cant even take public transport (actually I can use NFC card and take a lot of care never to lose money on it, to drive to first place where I can charge it). Banking software. Update firmware for my headset.
Then there come the fishy practices of applications, full of advertising kits stealing information, where HelloWorld app is 90MB apk, as it has Facebook SDK included. You can partially protect yourself with https://netguard.me/, but even I can avoid it (wont explain how, typical android developer doesnt know much beyond java and I dont want to shoot myself in a foot helping them).
- There is no alternative. /e/ and others dont even come close.
Security is one thing, the privacy they(GrapheneOS) provide is another. You can have privacy without every detail of security they require. While they refuse to provide privacy without security.
Thats why I buy Pixels and feel more and more dirty each time I do it.
Had sailfish in between but that is another set of problems, Jolla failing to realize, they need to have strong compatibility Android layer (to use everyday stuff like bluetooth - in my case for paying public transport) until there is enough software for Sailfish. In any case, Sailfish is my FAR prefered option, over GrapheneOS. But unfortunately the spin of the world and my wishes are not aligned.
- This went far enough. I have stated my thoughts, if the view doesn't change, GrapheneOS will continue to sell Pixels (lol, SAMSUNGS! Still rather buy them than Pixel) and I will be forced to buy them.
>Please consider the level of retardation this comment requires, it's impressive.
Yes, thats why I have stopped discussing with you and I dont know why I even started - futileness discussing with GrapheneOS evangelists is well known over the internet.
- Sure they have a mission. But sometimes mission can be done by taking 1 step back to later make 2 steps forward in fast pace.
At the end all profit. While in current state, the culprit, Google profits.
And please keep fallacies like "do it yourself" for yourself, I am talking about collaboration, feel free to open another thread on top level about forks.
Same goes for /e/ ... they just dont compare.
GrapheneOS has two use-cases that are they excelling with, security and privacy.
While security is not really my threat model (some rubber-hose cryptography aka large wrench, solves this issue for any attacker), privacy violations are everyones issue. Even if they dont care.
- This is the whole point, they should stop nitpicking and start to do it (GrapheneOS side), even if it is not going to be THE most secure phone, there is enough of features that are far more useful then just security (like privacy). I don't mind if they make it payable. With money they will get (I suspect there will be quite a bit less pixels sold) they can make a new phone that will have all the bells and whistles GrapheneOS wants and on the other side, Fairphone developers will figure out it is $$$ worthy to do it.
GrapheneOS has bunch of requirements that are expensive while Fairphone has zero chance to figure out, if investing would make any economical sense, while their normal users dont really care about that security but might regarding privacy. This is a stale-mate position.
Found info about GrapheneOS installations, 250k users(1). Lets say 25% are on old pixels. This is 60k sold pixels.
All Fairphones sold by 2022 were 400k(2).
1. 2024, https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/12281-how-many-grapheneos-u...
- I am still waiting for Fairphone and Graphene OS collaboration. This is match made in heaven.
Any Fairphone/GrapheneOS developer reading this? Just do it, document if something is not secure enough for you, but do it. Nothing to think about, you fit together like hand and a glove and any seconds thoughts are depriving the planet of THE PHONE!
Pick the cash we will throw at you and make second generation with the cpu GrapheneOS wants, that will make the /r/GrapheneOS members eyes shine, drooling and crying of joy at the same time. +throw them in a few hardware switches for camera, mic, connectivity,... disabling. No need to wait to be perfect in first iteration (and due to that craziness and perfectionism will never happen), to gain the possibility to be perfect in second or third.
I would love so much to stop buying Google Pixel phones just to install Graphene OS and protect myself from Google and its ecosystem, it seems so counterproductive.
- Very nice, will use it on my child, but this doesn't cover my case.
I have it as a wallet (those flip cases) so it is always with me. But it can stay in backpack for days without using it, except maybe for calls (to talk with parents after I don't call for weeks :D) and to pay for public transit (huge mess to charge nfc cards). I don't use social networks, chat software (sms excluded) at all, never even registered to fb, cant even remember when was the last time I installed any app.
I consider this a very sane use of phone. It is not addiction, rather satisfying addicted society that is pressuring me to use it.
- It worked until now for, what, 20 years? And it worked very well, check Google stock.
Don't be afraid, they have calculated people not paying into the strategy.
And it wont stop working because you wont pay Google extra money. But it will become worse for most of people, including you, if you set yourself into position of slave and pay, confirming their theory that they can exploit you so much more.
Btw, did you check the link? You should really learn from it.
- Sure I do, by suckers watching ads, like it always was.
The whole thing about Google is that they are not software company (as people like to falsely believe), they are advertising company, financing everything else from ads. Including search, youtube, android, gmail and all other side projects.
And those side projects brings them data, to advertise more efficiently.
Now, seeing a trend to monetize their side toys is just pure greed, they don't really need that.
This is also the reason, why no one can compete with them. As competing with free products is impossible unless you have side financing.
By the way, did you (and everyone else) maybe read this study? https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu/article/leave_my_br... It is very eye opening.
I have ONE static external IPv4 for my network.
I can handle everything I want with it. And block everything I dont want my network to be.
So I just disable IPv6 on router (Mikrotik).
Not interested, not wanting it. That is it. If someone needs it, feel free to use it. I wont support double configurations on my router because of it.