Until EVs solve the cost problem as well as the "tracking device" and the "I have 8 iPads built into the dash" problems I'm not very excited.
The Slate looks pretty exciting in this regard but I'm worried it will ever exist, or if it will fall badly short of cost estimates. It's already slipped to ~$27.5k due to the expiration of the EV tax credit. In practice, whenever a car says "starting at $xx it's usually impossible to find that model and you can only get the midrange models which are $5-$10k more than the base price.
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Interestingly as well, the Slate sidesteps the towing problem by refusing to attempt to tow. It's rated to tow 1,000 lbs, which is effectively nothing. It's still got a respectable payload, though, so it does work as a truck.
Are these problems exclusive to EVs?
The Slate would be the only EV coming out that avoids this problem, which combined with the price is one of the reasons I'm interested.
With ICE cars, at least you still have the (dwindling) option of buying an older vehicle
I predict that EV trucks with a range extender will do very well in the US, and will be the catalyst behind the move to electric trucks. Once people get the experience of an electric truck they will love it, but the option to dump in gasoline and drive 400 miles without charging is an imaginary barrier that stops most customers from giving it a shot.
Personally, I would love to see an electric truck that can be charged while driving by an external generator, possible mounted to a trailer.
My household is a newer hybrid Ford Maverick and an older ICE Impreza (that gets worse fuel economy than the Maverick) - if we were replacing the Impreza today we'd probably go for a 2026 Leaf or a used Chevy Bolt.
or you just felt that those needed to be two separate posts?
A HUUUUUGE number of motorcycles never go more than 50-75 miles in a day. CycleTrader is awash with 3,4,and 5 year old bikes that have barely been ridden. A 100 mile range electric bike (e.g., the Harley Livewire) would 100% fill those needs.
But people think they're gonna go on long trips, or whatever, or ride more, and they scoff at a bike you can't ride all day even though they'll never actually ride a bike all day.
Do some motorcycle owners commute on their bikes? Of course, but that’s clearly the minority of the market. The reason cycle trader is full of low mileage bikes is that the whole activity is kind of a pain in the ass when you think about it. Add charging to that and it’s just too much to bear.
Pleasure riders often ride on nice sunny sundays in groups to ruralish areas where it’s scenic and the roads are winding with few traffic lights etc. they need to be able to “gas up” a significant number of bikes quickly. And that shit is a pain to organize so they do it like twice a year. Hence the low mileage.
Electric motorcycles really are a super hard sell. The stark varg makes way more sense cause that’s a type of motorcycle that gets carried to the destination most of the time anyway. So the range thing is way less of an issue and the upsides stand out way more. That’s probably why I see way, way more Vargs or bikes like them than live wires.
This is not true. If I'm wrong about this, I'd love to be shown a citation.
The Livewire problem is MOSTLY that (a) Harley made it too expensive and (b) Harley has to performativly hate anything that isn't big and loud with a vibration at idle that would churn butter. And they do this to the detriment of their brand.
It’s more common among the sporty bikes. A lot of these bikes didn’t even have a fuel gauge until that long ago. Just a fuel light. Tons of guys say they go about 100 miles for fill ups. Maybe that’s cause of the history of the bikes, you want a number that’s easy to remember cause you were really looking at the odometer as your gas gauge. Even a Harley bob only has 165 miles of range according to the website. Assume you don’t go from absolutely full to empty, 1 gallon less than the maximum, you’re at 120 miles.
Yeah the live wire is real expensive. Where are you going to charge it? It doesn’t make sense. Compared to a car the battery is tiny, so you should be able to charge at like full DC fast charge rates on a level 2 charger. Except the original livewire had a super weak built in charger so it couldn’t charge at above 1.4kw? So you had to look for dc chargers. It failed for really good reasons. That’s the point I’m trying to make, it failed for good reasons. I think it’s actually rational.
Traditional motorcycles are a terrible use case for replacing with electric right now. But on the commuter side they are becoming insanely popular (although I think usually they are the illegal suron type bikes).
I’m not gonna defend harleys and cruising. I don’t get it. I’m just saying these things are mostly toys. The new bike buyer is buying a toy. But lots of people have lots of reasons for things. Personally I think sporty cars are about handling and power and stuff so I think sporty EVs are great. Most people disagree with me. They want noises and “character”.
There are virtually zero bikes with an range of only 100 miles. People still joke about the VMax because it actually DID have that limitation. It's the exception that proves the rule.
The vast majority of bikes are good for materially more than that. Even my very staid, traditional Bonnville will easily make 150 on the highway if not farther. My BMW will double that.
My main point about the Livewire is that it's more than Harley failed IT because they're absolutely terrified of annoying their MAGA boomer base that is incredibly hostile to the whole IDEA of EVs.
Daily commuter bikes are a GREAT use case for electrics, IMO. I know a couple folks here in Durham who do it (one, in fact, on a Livewire). I haven't looked hard at electric bikes myself because I do much farther rides than that, so the utility isn't there -- but as an urban runabout, they're awesome.
He's in his mid-80s with prostate problems. He has never taken the trip.
on the plus side you stand to inherit a fairly lightly used truck in a few years
- Not amazing at hauling people
- Only OK payload
- Not the best gas mileage
- Too expensive (but still cheaper than other midsize trucks -- $36k)
With how much everything costs this truck really _had_ to be a compromise. It had to be able to do everything. I'd have much rather had an old crappy truck and then a normal family car, but those seem to have all been priced out.
IF you do this even once a year you don't really have any other option. Finding a rental truck that allows you to tow is hard. The vast majority won't allow it. When you do find one it is generally in an inconvenient location and very expensive. I can justify keeping my truck (long paid for) just because just 2 trips a year need a truck and so it is cheaper overall to just own the truck (tax and insurance is low) than to rent.
But I wouldn't buy one for the same reason I won't buy an ICE truck right now: They are way too overpriced — costing around 300% more than the truck I currently have cost when it was new, even though inflation is only 40% over the same period.
The charger station situation will probably need to be figured out however.
I'm 35, don't own a vehicle, and have never owned a vehicle. I live in SF. I think I'm finally getting to the point in my life where, maybe, I want a vehicle. I'd use it to take myself to camping music festivals and Burning Man. That's about it. Oh, I'm sure I'd find other uses for it, helping friends haul stuff, etc... but, practically speaking, most of my needs are consistently addressed by public transit and/or Waymo.
I guess what I'm trying to say is - literally the only time I feel like I'm missing out on a vehicle is when I have a need to transport a large amount of stuff a large amount of miles into desolate environments.
Does that mean my desire for a truck is imaginary/aspirational because, if I were to own it, 99% of the time I'd be content with a low range battery? I can see why people would think that, but, to me, it seems more like the 1% is the rationale for owning the vehicle.
Also, you must understand that your use case here isn't even remotely the norm.
Have you ever looked at the real costs of renting. More rentals won't let you tow. They won't let you go off road (no burning man!), even if allowed they will charge you for the damages typical of going off road. Any just when you think you have navigated all that you get there to pick up the car you reserved and they are sold out.
I'm not saying renting cannot work, but it isn't nearly as clear cut as people keep saying.
1% of 365 is still nearly once a quarter. That would be enough for me.
The driving and ownership experience of electric vehicles is MUCH better, but it is hard to convince buyers to try it out.