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I’ve noticed some of these kids can’t tell time on analog clocks nor read cursive handwriting.

Analog clocks are interesting in that they exercise your brain when you read them. You have to do calculation (what is the number system for each hand), spatial reasoning (where is each hand) and categorization (what is each hand).

There’s a program called Arrowsmith that has a summer program called the Cognitive Intensive Program. It’s basically 3-4 hours a day of speed reading analog clock for 7 weeks. You start out at 2 handed and work up to 8 handed.

Changed my son’s life. He was a completely different student afterwards, for the better.

I kinda rabbit holed on this and it seems to be a very lucrative scam

https://medium.com/myndplan/myndplan-9961a084f750

All good points, particularly the control group piece. Scrutinizing control groups makes it easy to invalidate most studies about treatments in this space because control groups are so difficult to assemble. You should see the variance in autism spectrum.

It still worked for my son and my friend’s two children.

I have no affiliation with the program at all. I talk about it because it worked for us.

I latched onto it because I know the type of things that I have struggled with my entire life, but just learned a lot of coping mechanisms. I’m also very self aware. I pay a lot of attention to how my own brain works because of the need to develop those coping mechanisms. When I saw the full program, everything made perfect sense to me and I absolutely believe that it would have helped me when I was younger.

Had I been able to tolerate working half days for 7 weeks, I would have participated in the program myself.

Just $6k to change your life by speed reading clocks for 3 hours a day for two months...

Needless to say this trips my crank/cult smell meter.

That is the program, yes. I’m not trying to sell you on it, just sharing our experience.

I found out about it from one of my neighbors who has two children with dysgraphia who did the full time program for 3 years each. He tells everybody about it.

I toured that location when my son was going into 3rd grade and we ended up sending doing just the summer program after 7th grade. What I saw on the tour would have helped me when I was a kid and my sons brain seems to work just like mine.

If you threatened me with 3+ hours a day of speed reading clocks instead of a normal summer I'd probably double down on effort too. And probably not in a way that's healthy long term.
What information does an 8 handed clock convey?
Time?
To the hundred millisecond?
You could also include day, month, year, and how close we are to destroying the world [1].

[1] https://thebulletin.org/doomsday-clock/

> Analog clocks are interesting in that they exercise your brain when you read them. You have to do calculation

Interesting, for me it is the opposite. With a digital clock I need to do a division/comparison to know how much part of the day/hour has already passed. With an analog clock I can read a proportion directly.

Hours, minutes, seconds, degrees, arcminutes, arcseconds... I could try to read 6, but honestly I doubt I'd even be able to see the arcseconds hand, it would be moving so quickly.
This is hilarious, I don’t even want to know if it’s legit.
I can read analogue clocks only because I was taught in school, and prefer digital ones for all use cases I have myself (other than maybe decorative?), and even when I do read an analogue clock face, I convert that to digital time in my head before I can properly parse it, so I have a hard time blaming them. There aren't many analogue clock faces I need to read in my life, and there are probably even less in theirs. The last time I strictly needed to be able to read one was, funnily enough, teaching kids how to read one.
> I convert that to digital time in my head

What? They are the same thing.

Not to other people I've talked to.

I'm the wrong person to ask this about, since I prefer digital time, so time is just a number to me. But Technology Connections made a video atleast talking about it,[1] so hopefully that get part of the point across. To him and plenty of other analogue-first people, time is a progress bar, or a chart, or something along those lines, and that's the natural way to perceive time, and converting it to a number is meaningless beyond expressing it as digital time.

[1] https://youtu.be/NeopkvAP-ag

Totally agree. I do the same.

The only reason we have analog clocks is because digital ones were much harder to build. That time is of course over for good. It was a compromise imposed by limited technology.

Not really, analog clocks are readable over a much longer distance, because seeing an angle needs much less information, than parsing glyphs.
To me time is somehow both, but more so an analog thing. It is a multimodular linear scale, that turns logarithmic, the moment I focus on any specific point.
Aside from signatures, which don't need to be read, I don't remember the last time I've seen cursive outside of an elementary school.
Something really cool about reading the Declaration of Independence.
you don't write. people don't write in cursive around you?
Why would you write in cursive? If you care about WPM key board toasts it.

If you care about handwritten your receiver cares they got your letter at all not that it's cursive or not.

Cursive is an outdated skill for when it was the fastest way to get words written to paper.

> Why would you write in cursive?

Anyone using paper + pen? Writing a letter or thank you note?

You know, stuff only people who grew up before the internet was popular still do.

If it's something I want people to read, I'd never dare write it in cursive, because if I did, I wouldn't count on them being able to read it.

I'll write in (not great) cursive for myself, but for other people? Writing in block or print is basically an accessibility feature. Even if my cursive was perfect, plenty of people would not be able to read it.

I grew up in a world where everyone knew cursive, and until this sort of discussion became popular in recent years, it honestly wouldn't have occurred to me that there were many people who didn't know. But I guess they had to cut some things out of the curriculum and it's not as useful as it used to be.
> Cursive is an outdated skill for when it was the fastest way to get words written to paper.

There was a class signifier aspect to it as well. Poor kids couldn't spend as much time practicing and perfecting penmanship. In a world where much got done through handwritten personal letters, good penmanship would make an impression similar to having properly tailored formal attire vs a tattered coat.

My grandma went to public school but grew up in an era where that sort of thinking was widespread, so she got extra tutoring. She learned to write freehand with a ruler flat baseline and machine like consistency in each letter. You could recognize a card or mail from her instantly just by the addressing on the envelope.

I wasn't taught that strictly but I did spend years of elementary school with those Red Chief notebooks copying letters page after page much to the frustration of my young ADHD brain.

I doubt I could properly write cursive today. I barely ever hand write notes anymore, so there's no real point.

>>Why would you write in cursive?

I'm confused. How do you write if not in cursive? Do you just write in block capitals? With each letter on its own? Do you just not hand write anymore?

>>Cursive is an outdated skill for when it was the fastest way to get words written to paper.

But....It still is? Without using some kind of machine of course.

> Do you just write in block capitals?

Block capitals? no. It's print. With upper and lowercase letters.

I rarely handwrite now. The last time I really did was in college.

> But....It still is? Without using some kind of machine of course.

But of course this is HN where most people are technical. We all have some sort of machine at our disposal otherwise we'd not be writing back and forth to one another.

I'm a person who mostly types, writes tons of code, but also is a graphic designer, and I also have pitiful penmanship. I can write regular sans-serif (all caps or properly capitalized), as well as cursive, but ultimately the concept of fonts make more sense to me than anything else in terms of an expression of letters and typography.

There are a million ways to articulate a glyph, from thick to thin, clear to murky, big, small, harsh, soft, whatever. Some people still use typewriters or typeset a printing press. Others use spray paint or marker.

End of the day for me it's just about communication and expression and aesthetic and clarity (or sometimes intentional LACK of visual clarity in honor of a style), not technique or medium. I dunno.

I do think every bozo should be able to pick up a pen and make his mark, and I think humans should practice the art of crafting a sentence and turning a phrase, but I really don't focus on the how, and more on the what, the message.

Even the Zodiac Killer had a unique and bizarre style with his handwriting and cipher LOL can you imagine if it was just bog-standard 5th grade cursive?

> How do you write if not in cursive?

I write with mix of cursive and sorta print letters. The sorta print letters are more readable, actually.

Based on what teachers said, kids use cursive while they are forced to and switch to sorta print when they can. But everyone invents their own "font", so it is a challenge to decipher them.

Most people do not hand write anything more than a short note in 2025, and paper is not usually the target medium for longer texts. A desire to write without access to some sort of machine is a bit quaint.

Of course to be pedantic, modern pens are machines too.

People write in cursive the same way a doctor writes a prescription.
I’m not sure the last time I’ve handwritten anything longer than a signature and my cursive skills show it.

On a white board or diagram, block letters seem like the most legible choice.

Everything else is typed.

I'll be honest I actually prefer my words to be lasting and have weight so I prefer block letters carved into lead which doesn't benefit much from cursive
okay, but if you care about recall and activating regions of the brain that create a better understanding of what you're learning, handwriting wins according to research.
Can you link to some of that research? The last time I saw such research get shared on HN, the researchers were limiting the typists to 1 finger (per hand?), which is patently absurd.

More than that, I would be curious to see research that controls for proficiency at writing/typing. My theory is that if more kids were taught to properly touch type from an early age, the alleged differences between writing/typing would be far less dramatic. I was taught since kindergarten and there's no doubt in my mind that I absorb and understand information better through typing than writing. I'm also much, much, much faster. Brief Googling suggests I'm at least 10x faster than the average WPM for handwriting

Instead, here we are talking about how cursive should actually still be taught.

Mueller & Oppenheimer (2014) – available via Psychological Science / SAGE (DOI: 10.1177/0956797614524581)

Longcamp et al. (2005) – PubMed or Elsevier (Acta Psychologica)

Smoker et al. (2009) – Human Factors and Ergonomics Society proceedings

Umejima et al. (2021) – Frontiers in Behavioral Neuroscience (open access)

Ito et al. (2020) – HCII conference proceedings (Springer CCIS)

But is there a difference between cursive and block lettering? I fully agree with your overall point about handwritten notes being far superior to typed notes. It forces you to filter out extraneous information instead of being a live transcriptionist of your professor.
I've found drilling notes via method of loci of visualized flashcards/facts for this to be superior for myself which I always sourced from typed notes. Not really familiar with the research that cursive would improve over it.
I don't comprehend your stance at all. Where I am from, handwriting IS cursive and the other thing is called print for a reason.
This is not the case in the US (anymore) and atleast some places in Europe. Print gets taught first and you learn to write with that, then cursive comes later, by this point usually as an afterthought.
I've been journaling and taking handwritten notes in cursive since 1998. You'd think I'd have developed beautiful handwriting - nope, illegible.
~25 years ago I decided to take the LSAT. At the time, there was an essay component that was required to be conducted in cursive.

I basically had to teach myself all over again. Not much fun.

I never stopped writing in cursive but then again I don’t write much by hand anymore.
These aren't really comparable. Cursive handwriting varies considerably between people. One person's might be very clear, another might be impossible to discern.
The way things are headed, you'll just point your phone at it and have it translated to plaintext in 3-5 years anyhow.
This sort of thing is some of the weirdest pseudointellectualism I've seen. Most adults and seniors also can't tell where they are by the position of the stars, or write with a fountain pen, or use a sliderule, or read a sundial. Because now we have Google Maps, ballpoint pens, calculators, and analog clocks.
> Most adults and seniors also can't tell where they are by the position of the stars, or write with a fountain pen, or use a sliderule, or read a sundial.

I maybe give you the stars, but all the others demand a "Citation needed".

What? Next you are going to tell me they can’t use an abacus or properly impress cuneiform into clay tablets.
You should talk to teachers, lot of kids can't answer test questions because they don't even understand the words in the question... A growing proportion of kids are close to non functional, with multiple years of delay compared to previous generations.
Are they writing the test questions in cursive? If not I’m not sure what this has to do with my comment.

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