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One problem that I have with trying to understand "time" is that we can't measure how quickly it "flows" or at least how quickly we travel through it.

> One problem that I have with trying to understand "time" is that we can't measure how quickly it "flows" or at least how quickly we travel through it.

Our experience of time passing is heavily influenced by the temporal granuality of our subjective experience-at the upper end, “now” lasts 2-3 seconds; at the lower end, our temporal discrimination goes down to tens of milliseconds for visual and tactile stimuli, and reaches down to microseconds for certain types of auditory stimuli. But, one supposes other species with different neurology would have these durations be shorter or longer, which would make time pass more slowly or faster for them, in subjective terms.

> we can't measure how quickly it "flows" or at least how quickly we travel through it.

I don't understand this, because it seems like "with a clock" is too obvious an answer, so surely you can't have meant what it sounds like it meant?

If we say that seconds "pass", at what rate do they pass? Could they pass at some rate other than one second per second? That would entail outer seconds (second seconds, if you like). Which also have their own rate at which they pass, so now we need a third-level "flow of time", and so on.

So to say seconds "pass" is describing something else. They aren't moving.

> If we say that seconds "pass", at what rate do they pass?

One second per second for yourself, but other observers generally disagree.

Or one could use it as an inverse of the things measured against time, so meters/second of speed can be turned into seconds flowing at a rate of length.

Does "miles per gallon" lead to similar questions about gallons passing?

> Could they pass at some rate other than one second per second?

Only, and always, from the point of view of people in different frames of reference.

You're talking about something else. Or rather, my line of argument ran into a distraction hazard, namely relativity. I wasn't trying to talk about relativity, but I should have seen that coming. And now everybody's very keen to explain relativity to me, dammit.
I did give a response to the non-relativity interpretation too.

Sure, it wasn't clear which way you were going with that question, but I recognised that it could have been either.

I feel like you are overthinking it a bit, entangled in semantics. You can take any process that has a fixed frequency (like a clock), and measure the change in frequency in different situations, from the same point of reference. Moving that device at different speeds or into different places in a gravitational field. This is why satellite clocks move at a different rate than those on Earth.

Practically speaking, that's really what we care about when we talk about the speed of time. If some process takes a certain amount of time to complete, sending it to space and back, without changing anything else about it, might make it complete earlier from our point of reference.

It is actually about seconds per second, and there is an inner and an outer second as you say. There’s nothing wrong with that, because it is always a relative difference between two frames of reference. There are the seconds for our point of view, and there are the seconds for the device we are sending to space and back.

I think you are struggling to understand how to measure the absolute speed of time, but there’s no such thing, it’s always a comparison, it is relative.

I think our language is filled with misleading semantics about the flow of time, the passing of time, past, present, future, the arrow of time, all of that. It would be hopeless to try to use different language. But time isn't doing anything. There's no time for time to do anything in.

I'll acknowledge relativity and different frames of reference, but that isn't really the point.

Things happen, some things happen before other things. We count time by using clocks, they tick at regular rates with respect to other things happening.

If a clock is in a frame of faster time, it will tick faster, its ticks will happen before, than an identical clock in a frame of slower time.

That’s how I see time, it is the ordering of physical events, which we can trivially observe.

You keep trying to explain time as if it was a thing of its own, like a water flow, but it is no more than an abstraction to indicate how some things happen before others, and they definitely do, at least in the same frame.

This analogy is insufficient as well of course. For instance, if we have two clocks, we move one onto a faster time frame for a while and then bring it back, it is as if the clock was an ordered stack of physical events, the ordering between the events in either stack is tricky to determine, but you could clearly observe that one stack was more filled than the other.

I am not trying to get into a fight, this is simply a welcome exercise that forces me to crystallize my own understanding, hope it is for you too.

You’ve never listened to a podcast at a rate of 1.5 seconds per second?
I guess I have to ask what more you're looking for, perhaps hoping for, than: 1 second per second?

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