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Despite all the gnashing of teeth in this thread, this seems reasonable. This seems to only prevent you from logging into your account, with only a password, NOT verifying it (by dismissing all the prompts asking you to do so), and then sending (and receiving new!) encrypted messages anyway. I've never used an unverified Matrix account in the 6 years that I've been an active user. Verification used to be a bit finicky, but it's pretty seamless now. And once the QR code login stuff is better supported, it will be dead easy.

> Despite all the gnashing of teeth in this thread, this seems reasonable

I empathize a lot with the negative experiences shared in this thread.

I think the problem is that every little decision in Matrix might be reasonable to the people who have complete context about the decision, but all of the churn and rough edges have added up to a very bumpy ride. Not only that, but it has been a poorly communicated and documented ride as many in this comment section can attest.

I suspect all of these issues and changes feel like no problem to people who are active in Matrix every day and have a support network to chat with where they all get through the issues by sharing tips and info. For the rest of us who are casual users who only occasionally log in it feels like I’m rolling the dice every time I have to use it. Some times it works like it did last time, some times I have to go on a 30 minute adventure with Google and play games across devices to get it back into a working state again.

> Not only that, but it has been a poorly communicated and documented ride as many in this comment section can attest.

The guides are written for cryptographic infrastructure nerds and not regular normal users that have a habit of forgetting their own passwords after six months. Not to mention the fact that the Element UI tends to churn a lot.

I didn't even know that they deprecated creating new passphrases, and that's what I was telling my users to do!

Doesn’t verification also exchange encryption keys, letting you decrypt messages from before you logged in? I remember that being a huge issue where you would see unable to decrypt messages.

Probably just bad UX to let people skip the verification step.

Yes. If you don’t verify, every conversation is empty.
But it also asks for recovery key and complains about it being out of sync until entered even if you do the verification step! Entirely possible to only get a partial recovery of messages until this is entered.
That's not normal. It doesn't happen on any of my accounts or clients. Verification takes a moment if you're in a lot of rooms, but it exchanges all keys.
been a pretty reliable issue when I've set up a new device. Whatever keys the client is getting, they're apparently not useful.

(This general flakiness of features just sometimes not working as they should is probably the main reason I haven't tried to recommend friends to switch to element)

cannot confirm this either

one method of verification suffices (be it recovery key or using a different device)

> Doesn’t verification also exchange encryption keys, letting you decrypt messages from before you logged in?

if you use key backup

> Despite all the gnashing of teeth in this thread, this seems reasonable

I think it's not the requirement itself that's the crucible of discussion but the issues are rather that the blog post should have explicitly defined what verification is in it's second sentence and that matrix/element still is barely useable even for reasonably technical users.

> barely useable even for reasonably technical users

My entire family (including my elderly mother) would be very interested to learn how technical they are!

Scale matters. Once you achieve over a hundred of users, you got all the random bugs, and glitches appearing, and you can't guide everyone personally across UX issues. This is when lack of decent documentation, unpolished UI, and even the fact that it uses its own terminology (like "spaces") starts to hurt. I don't mean Synapse/Element combination is bad, but so far it's not great either.
Argue with the people in this thread that made this argument.

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