For every "OMG, internet is filled with ads", people are conveniently forgetting the real-world impact of ALL COMPANIES (and not just Apple) btw. Either you should be upset with the system, and not selectively at Google.
That would be bad if it happened, which is why it doesn't happen. Working in a factory isn't an inhumane condition.
I also hold Americans and western consumers are responsible for simply allowing that to happen. As long as the human rights abuses and corruption are 3 or 4 degrees of separation from the retailer, people seem to be perfectly OK with chattel slavery and child labor and indentured servitude and all the human suffering that sits at the base of all our wonderful technology and cheap consumer goods.
If we want to have things like minimum wage and workers rights and environmental protections, then we should mandate adherence to those standards globally. If you want to sell products in the US, the entire supply chain has to conform to US labor and manufacturing and environmental standards. If those standards aren't practical, then they should be tossed out - the US shouldn't be doing performative virtue signalling as law, incentivizing companies to outsource and engage in race to the bottom exploitation of labor and resources in other countries. We should also have tariffs and import/export taxes that allow competitive free trade. It's insane that it's cheaper to ship raw materials for a car to a country in southeast asia, have it refined and manufactured into a car, and then shipped back into the US, than to simply have it mined, refined, and manufactured locally.
The ethics and economics of America are fucking dumb, but it's the mega-corps, donor class, and uniparty establishment politicians that keep it that way.
Apple and Google are inhuman, autonomous entities that have effectively escaped the control and direction of any given human decision tree. Any CEO or person in power that tried to significantly reform the ethics or economics internally would be ousted and memory-holed faster than you can light a cigar with a hundred dollar bill. We need term limits, no more corporation people, money out of politics, and an overhaul, or we're going to be doing the same old kabuki show right up until the collapse or AI takeover.
And yeah, you can single out Google for their misdeeds. They, in particular, are responsible for the adtech surveillance ecosystem and lack of any viable alternatives by way of their constant campaign of enshittification of everything, quashing competition, and giving NGOs, intelligence agencies, and government departments access to the controls of censorship and suppression of political opposition.
I haven't and won't use Google AI for anything, ever, because of any of the big labs, they are most likely and best positioned to engage in the worst and most damaging abuse possible, be it manipulation, invasion of privacy, or casual violation of civil rights at the behest of bureaucratic tyrants.
If it's not illegal, they'll do it. If it's illegal, they'll only do it if it doesn't cost more than they can profit. If they profit, even after getting caught and fined and taking a PR hit, they'll do it, because "number go up" is the only meaningful metric.
The only way out is principled regulation, a digital bill of rights, and campaign finance reform. There's probably no way out.
They don't, all cobalt in Apple products is recycled.
> and whitewashing what they do by using corporate layering and shady deals to put themselves at sufficient degrees of separation from problematic labor and sources to do good PR, but not actually decoupling at all.
They don't, Apple audits their entire supply chain so it wouldn't hide anything if something moved to another subcontractor.
0. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/04/apple-will-use-100-pe...
Even 25 years ago people wouldn't even believe Youtube exists. Anyone can upload whatever they want, however often they want, Youtube will be responsible for promoting it, they'll provide to however many billions users want to view it, and they'll pay you 55% of the revenue it makes?
They are forcing a payment method on us. It's basically like they have their hand in our pockets.
I think a lot of the harms you mentioned are real, but they're a natural consequence of capitalistic profit chasing. Governments are supposed to regulate monopolies and anti-consumer behavior like that. Instead of regulating surveillance capitalism, governments are using it to bypass laws restricting their power.
If I were a google investor, I would absolutely want them to defeat ad-blocking, ban yt-dlp, dominate the ad-market and all the rest of what you said. In capitalism, everyone looks out for their own interests, and governments ensure the public isn't harmed in the process. But any time a government tries to regulate things, the same crowd that decries this oppose government overreach.
Voters are people and they are moral entities, direct any moral outrage at us.
It’s perfectly valid to criticize corporations for their actions, regardless of the regulatory environment.
They're accountable as individuals not as a collective. And it so happens, they are responsible for their government in a democracy but corporations aren't responsible for running countries.
> It’s perfectly valid to criticize corporations for their actions, regardless of the regulatory environment.
In the free speech sense, sure. But your criticism isn't founded on solid ground. You should expect corporations to do whatever they have to do within the bounds of the law to turn a profit. Their responsibility is to their investors and employees, they have no responsibility to the general public beyond that which is laid out in the law.
The increasing demand in corporations being part of the public/social moral consciousness is causing them to manipulate politics more and more, eroding what little voice the individuals have.
You're trying to live in a feudal society when you treat corporations like this.
If you're unhappy with the quality of Google's services, don't do business with them. If they broke the law, they should pay for it. But expecting them to be a beacon of morality is accepting that they have a role in society and government beyond mere revenue generating machines. And if you expect them to have that role, then you're also giving them the right to enforce that expectation as a matter of corporate policy instead of law. Corporate policies then become as powerful as law, and corporations have to interfere with matters of government policy on the basis of morality instead of business, so you now have an organization with lots of money and resources competing with individual voters.
And then people have the nerve to complain about PACs, money in politics, billionaire's influencing the government, bribery,etc.. you can't have it both ways. Either we have a country run partly by corporations, and a society driven and controlled by them, or we don't.
Being in charge of a corporation shouldn't elevate someone to a platform where they have a louder voice than the common man. They can vote just as equally as others at the voting booth. they can participate in their capacity as individuals in politics. But neither money, nor corporate influence have places in the governance of a democratic society.
I talk about lawfulness because that is the only rule of law a corporation can and should be expected to follow. Morals are for individuals. Corporations have no morals. they are neither moral or immoral. Their owners have morals, and you can criticize their greed, but that is a construct of capitalism. They're supposed to enrich themselves. You can criticize them for valuing money over morals, but that's like criticizing the ocean for being wet or the sun for being too hot. It's what they do. It's their role in society.
If a small business owner raises prices to increase revenue, that isn't immoral right? even though poor people that frequent them will be disaffected? amp that up to the scale of a megacorp, and the morality is still the same.
Corporations are entities that exist for the sole purpose of generating revenue for their owners. So when you criticize Google, you're criticizing a logical organization designed to do the thing you're criticizing it of doing. The CEO of google is acting in his official capacity, doing the job they were hired to do when they are resisting adblocking. The investors of Google are risking their money in anticipation of ROI, so their expectation from Google is valid as well.
When you find something to be immoral, the only meaningful avenue of expressing that with corporations is the law. You're criticizing google as if it was an elected official we could vote in/out of office. or as if it is an entity that can be convinced of its moral failings.
When we don't speak up and user our voice, we lose it.
And what of the people that ravenously support ads and ad-supported content, instead of paying?
What of the consumptive public? Are they not responsible for their choices?
I do not consume algorithmic content, I do not have any social media (unless you count HN for either).
You can't have it both ways. Lead by example, stop using the poison and find friends that aren't addicted. Build an offline community.
Also, HN is by definition algorithmic content and social media, in your mind what do you think it is?
Most of the time, you need to pick one. Modern advertising is not based on finding the item with the most utility for the user - which means they are aimed at manipulating the user's behaviour in one way or another.