I've had one of my DIY ebike batteries short and fail spectacularly at near full charge and was able to push it with a broom out of the garage into the driveway before any damage was done. Now I have a bench with wheels that I can take into the driveway for initial testing.
The right answer is LifePO4 for home storage, does not combust and has good enough density.
Batteries with liquid electrolyte will always be able to provide greater power (i.e. greater current) within certain physical constraints. This should not matter for smartphones or laptops, but it should matter for many things with motors.
We worked on a very sturdy casing, with some specific features to release pressure and limit the fire event propagating cell to cell, you can check it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0NXXfCA2CY
> When an E-bike battery fails, 90% of the time, its just 1 or 2 cells that are dead inside or a single electronic component. But since traditional batteries are spot welded and glued, there is no chance to replace the faulty part and you need to replace the complete battery.The infinite battery is different. It uses a technology that makes it easy and safe to replace any parts, including lithium-ion cells. It doesn't require any specific tools nor knowledge. It takes less than 10 minutes.
> For safety and durability, it is recommended to change all cells at once.
https://infinite-battery.com/products/infinite-battery?_pos=...
For me the value proposition would be to avoid what happened with my previous ebike: after 3 years I wanted a new battery as the old one was on its last legs, and it wasn't produced anymore. Or what's happening with my current ebike: to avoid the same story with the battery, I am thinking of buying an extra one now while it's still produced, and it's outrageously expensive (550EUR for roughly 500Wh, which is about 7..10x the price of the cells if you are a careful buyer).
(You can fit a new battery to any bike with (sometimes lots of) extra work, but esp. my previous one had a weird solution where it slid into a rail above the rear wheel and it would have been a PITA to reengineer.)
So yeah if their thing works I'd consider a bike using it, on economical grounds mainly.
Our batteries have now be running for close to 3 years on shared mobility ebikes, so they are well-tested indeed! If you want more infos, send us an email at contact@gouach.com :)
Indeed it's 199 eur, but it's high-quality, certified, comes with a waterproof and fireproof casing, connected, with real-time safety alerts, and when you'll eventually need to change the cells, you'll only pay 50 eur to refill your battery!
Compared to that, an equivalent Bosch battery goes for 500 to 700 eur (for the same quality). We're even compatible with Bosch gen 2/3/4 (non-smart)
So the value prop are multiple things:
- you can indeed change the cells! When the industry matures, we might have a "second-life cell cycling" path where old cells are re-tested and matched so you could switch individual cells, but for now, as those "matched cells" aren't widely available we recommend you switch everything to new cells (this would cost an end-user about $50 rather than buying a new battery for $200/$300)
- our battery is also very high quality (passes all certifications, waterproof, fireproof, connected, with safety alerts)
- even if you need to change all the cells sometimes, getting back "pristine cells" rather than "damaged, welded and unwelded cells" will allow for multiple things: putting them in a second-life cycle for eg. energy storage batteries, and even better recycling (since you can get cells out of the casing, the recycling process is even more efficient)
- now the cells are perhaps 1/3rd the cost of a battery, so all things being equal, you'd rather be able to change all cells than throw in the trash the old battery
- we also have seen some batteries fail because of broken electronics, etc, which are just $30 to replace, and our battery makes it extremely simple to do so
You're going from when one cell fails, change the entire battery assembly, including any management electronics, case etc
To
When one cell fails, just get a fresh set of cells, at a fraction of the cost of a new battery assembly.
In the future, you also expect working cells to be circulated back into second-life use. Your casing makes this much more likely.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Are you actually shipping to costumers?
I was super excited back then about your product and company, but the rebrandings and lack of communication made me wary.
I've seen that more and more common lately
-get a high quality BMS from a reputable source, it should supports current limits and thermal probes - configure current limits with as much overhead as possible, the less you drive them, the cooler they'll stay - make sure you have sufficient thermal probes inside key points in the pack(s) and that they're configured in the BMS to cut draw - add thermal fuses as well, knowing where to put these is important, too - house the packs so to minimize fire risk and cascading issues, especially if space is not a concern
Many people building home storage batteries use a shed a few meters away from their home.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_nickel_manganese_cobal...
https://www.insurancenews.com.au/daily/egg-side-hustle-claim...
In the US, insurance covers stupidity. At least once -- your insurer may drop you after they pay out. As long as you don't have an exclusion in the contract covering a particular type of stupidity, and you are not committing fraud, you will be covered.
Also, I’ve always had a rider in my contracts that said the insurer waives their right to not pay if I’m at fault. I don’t know why this rider even exists but I always get it since it was first offered to me years ago.
Are you still talking about the battery starting a fire, and saying that it's my fault rather than the battery's fault? Because that's not an "indeed". I'm talking about non-battery fires.
If you're on the same page as me, and talking about non-battery fires... What makes it my fault?? Are you saying any possible fire is my fault? With the implication that insurance shouldn't pay out for any fires ever??
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S259017452...
Proper Home Storage systems are pretty safe:
https://www.bves.de/en/2024/12/17/study-home-batteries-fire-...
There are special containers for transport of (even damaged) lithium batteries, which don't look overly bulky:
https://www.zarges.com/en/solutions/transport-and-storage-of...
(There are pictures of such buildings online. Search is returning awful LLM-generated garbage landing pages, so I don't have a link.)
https://www.reddit.com/r/SweatyPalms/comments/1gbryd1/factor...
Throw it in a massive body of water is about as good as you can do until the energy is depleted. (Also, making a human perform the puncture to initiate a violent chemical reaction is WILD. Do better)
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1nuo0fj/...
For real dev work... essentially special sheds with massive ventilation to handle thermal runaways, rated by amount of kwh.
Other prevention measures: strict inbound QA on the cells.
That's a lot of work, to the point that if you value your time you are better off buying a factory made pack of a reputable because they will almost certainly do a better job than you will on the safety aspect.
Getting Lithium-Ion packs right (especially larger ones) requires more up-front funds in terms of gear (especially testing gear for large volumes of cells is quite pricey) as well. The only reason I would do another (big) pack is if the form factor or capacity I want is not available at all.
The brief flash of that 'rechargeable powerbank' in the video has so much wrong with it that it isn't even funny and that's before looking inside the pack. All of those crossing wires, brrr. And those modules in the linked video don't look much better. Oh, and he's got one cell group in there with fewer cells (13:26) so that pack will unbalance immediately during charge or discharge. Effectively the whole pack has as much capacity as that one smaller cell group times the number of cell groups. The lack of integrated balancing wires is another puzzle for me, crossing balancing wires is a major headache when building larger packs, you want the very best grade of wiring for that with vibration resistant insulation and some kind of wire guide to ensure the wires can't move or cross. The whole BMS setup looks like an afterthought, rather than that it was designed in.
Oh, no interlock on the two separate breakers for the inverter (configured to work in island mode) and the house power. Wait until someone engages both. You need a transfer switch there, not two separate breakers.
His remark that it all looks 'super dodgy' and that 'I do not recommend anybody ever builds a pack like this' is an interesting one: if you are aware of all that, why do such a crap job in the first place? If you are going to go through that much work you might as well do a proper job.
Meanwhile, this is really just an ad for JLPCB. Running around the house and the workshop at everything working is a bit cringe, it is as if that's just padding to extend the video runtime.