Hacker Neue

Preferences
immibis parent
The USA has a lot of criminalised speech, despite the 1A. The most obvious historical example is "I am going to assassinate the president tomorrow at noon", but recently there have been a lot more things you can't say, such as "Fuck Donald Trump" which got someone arrested and deported.
chrisco255
One can have a visa revoked for any arbitrary reason, as they are a guest in the country and not a citizen.

But yes, obviously serious threats of violence are not protected speech.

rswail
The First Amendment applies to any person in the United States, not just citizens. Visas should not be able to be revoked for "any arbitrary reason".

The fact that your statement is becoming more and more true in the United States is an indictment.

gambiting
Right, but as confirmed over and over and over again, non-citizens also have the right to 1st amendment, same as citizens.
AnthonyMouse
This is the general problem with having a bunch of laws sitting around that allow the government to punish people for things ordinary people regularly do, but then exercise the "discretion" not to punish them until they do something the government doesn't like.

Because then you don't really have any rights. They can't formally punish you for speech but they can punish you for breaking the same unrelated law a million other people broke without knowing and that only you were prosecuted for, "coincidentally" right after you said something they didn't like.

amiga386
They do have that right, but at the same time, a chaotic and vindictive adminstration can revoke the visa of, and then physically abduct, a non-citizen. They can then make statements that plainly make it clear they did that because of what the non-citizen wrote.

They can also contravene a number of other legal safeguards along the way, and disregard judges' orders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_R%C3%BCmeysa_%C3%...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_Rasha_Alawieh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Mahmoud_Khalil

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Mohsen_Mahdawi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activist_deportations_in_the_s...

It appears the US has elected an administration that wants to turn the country into a lawless shithole, where the powerful do whatever the fuck they want, and they deliberately fuck with laws and safeguards, and deliberately target their political enemies (e.g. student activists), to flex how powerful they are.

AnthonyMouse
> They can then make statements that plainly make it clear they did that because of what the non-citizen wrote.

I kind of hate the thing where people want to make this the part that matters, because Trump is a massive outlier who doesn't care about that and says the thing he's not supposed to say.

But the people who still do the prosecution under the pretext and then don't admit to why are even worse, because they're doing the same thing and then lying about it on top of that. If all you do is punish people for not lying, that's not going to solve anything. You need to take away their ability to trump up charges against random people.

projektfu
Norm MacDonald: There's one comedian who said to me that the worst part of the Cosby thing is the hypocrisy, but I disagree.

Jerry Seinfeld: You disagree?

Norm MacDonald: Yeah, I thought it was the raping.

mycall
I wouldn't be surprised if publishing circumvention code would be argued in court to be violence against earning money for political oriented books (spending money is a necessary and inseparable part of political communication).
Sammi
Which would explain why foreign tourists to the US have been decreasing recently.
TheRealPomax
These two things aren't even remotely in the same category. Committing a crime, then documenting how you committed that crime and then publishing the instructions for others to repeat that crime with the clear intent to have others repeat that crime, has nothing to do with saying a bunch of words that you haven't even acted on.

Dispute that this should constitute a crime as much as you want (and please, do. Take it to court, get the laws changed, go into politics, get the US fixed, this is bullshit) but for as long as it is: being charged with a crime for "doing crime and teaching others to do the same crime" is not a first amendment violation.

immibis OP
There aren't many words in the first amendment, and none of them are "unless you're telling someone how to commit a crime"

The current regime (before it was a regime) got away with a lot of very bad speech because "the first amendment says all speech is allowed, no matter what" and should be made to hold everyone to the same standard they hold themselves to.

This item has no comments currently.