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bluGill parent
If the C-suite makes decisions "based on golf games" then you need to learn how to play golf. You don't have to be good, but don't be so bad that you slow up the game. It is okay to be 1-2 over par every hole, but you need to nearly always find your ball and not hit too far into the rough. Take some lessons if needed. (there are swings that don't have as much power but are a lot easier to be accurate - perfect for you who doesn't want you win, you just want to be good enough to play the game). Then make sure you are on the list of people who will "complete your four-some" when anyone is looking for someone to play.

Nothing wrong with being good at golf above if you want to. However this is about politics and that just means good enough to play and talk about the game.

edit: over par not under...

ozim
That’s advice like „wake up earlier, read more books to be just like Bill Gates”.

Playing golf alone will not get you in the circle.

Even if you never played golf getting invited to play golf by someone from the circle gets you play the golf.

If you are not the type or not the material you won’t be invited.

I am senior devsecops and save company from crashing once a year - people like me. But business guys get to play golf I am just a worker bee for them.

try_the_bass
I think they're saying that learning to play golf is necessary to succeed in such an environment. I don't think they're claiming that learning to play golf is sufficient to succeed.

You're arguing against a point they weren't making, I think

bluGill OP
playing golf is what gets you in a place where you can be invited. Eventually 3 people will have a round planned - but a round is 4 people so they will take anyone who is able to play right then. If you can't play golf you are not invited - or if you say you do but can't you get black listed.

note that you need lots of other social skills to use this opportunity. They are playing a game and you are a side character - if you say too much you are out of line. However you can talk for 2 minutes (out of more than an hour long round) - use your minute well.

gnarlynarwhal42
Sorry to nitpick, and I know what you mean, but 1-2 under par on each hole you would be shooting ~45-55 which would basically be the best in the world :)

1-2 over par is shooting 90-100 which is much more achievable :)

bluGill OP
Thanks, fixed that.
wordpad
Respecting and engaging with company politics in order to push good engineering decisions is one thing, but learning and playing a sport, I think falls outside of "other duties as assigned" for an engineer.
citizenpaul
Also how do you get invited? When the invitee is specifically inviting the CEO without you to circumvent your influence?

Who is going to do your job while you stroke egos?

Victim blaming as usual. The problem is you don't do the CTO's job in addition to your own....f-off with that hustle life nonsense.

bluGill OP
You don't play with the ceo normally, but you play with others who play with the ceo (might be another level).

the important point is to be known a few levels up. That will get you places.

i'm not good at this, but people who are have gone farther than me.

skeeter2020
if you're one or two strokes under par for every hole you'll be invited because you're a world class player, or more likely you don't want to get invited because who wants to play with people who suck that bad?
upfrog
You get invited by actually trying to play. Not everyone who tries will get in, but it's a lot more likely that you'll succeed if you work the problem, instead of throwing up your hands in disgust at the world.

Non-technical skills matter. People and organizations have multi-faceted incentives. If you think the incentives of the people making decisions are leading to bad outcomes, then learn how to make that heard to them. Learn the situation as they see it, and use your own, better-aligned(?) incentives to improve the organization. And if it's not worth trying, so be it. But you need to accept that much of the world is you live in will continue to be shaped by the people who care enough to see "that hustle life nonsense" as a worthwhile trade.

Maro
I don't know if "victim blaming" [1] is the right wording, but I agree.

Doing weird shit like learning & going golfing just to keep idiots from making bad decisions shouldn't be part of our jobs.

[1] I don't think "victim" is a good term; we can always go get other jobs or drive a school bus instead

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