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tokioyoyo parent
In America, you fail the second you apologize or take accountability. Ignoring criticism and deflecting all the time gets you further, as it is part of the game. Unfortunately, this is just an accepted social science-y thing at this point. It is a very much cultural thing of the past couple of decades.
amelius
Isn't the case in engineering cultures, like Boeing before they changed into a business culture.
breve
Tesla doesn't cultivate an engineering culture. Tesla encourages a culture of lying. Some engineers have become so corrupted by it that they're willing to lie about things that there's no need to lie about, like quarter mile times of the Cybertruck:

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/tesla-cybertruck-beast-vs...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J3H8--CQRE

The lead engineer on the Cybertruck sadly tried to defend the lie:

https://x.com/wmorrill3/status/1746266437088645551

They never even ran that quarter mile.

ActionHank
Is there any engineering culture left in the US?

I feel like this is the case across the board.

JohnFen
Yes, there is. In every place that I've worked, including my current position, acknowledging when you're wrong or have failed at something increases trust in you and your professionalism.

People who always have an excuse, try to shift blame, etc., are assumed to be lacking in competency (let alone ethics and trustworthiness).

ActionHank
My point is less around how engineers behave, and more around how organisations behave.

If an organisation is constantly retrenching experienced staff and cutting corners to increase earnings rather than being driven by engineering first, it doesn't matter what the engineers do amongst themselves. This culture, in fact, rewards engineers doing a bad job.

JohnFen
Not all organizations behave that way, though. If you reword my comment to indicate the company attitudes themselves, it still largely holds true.

I confess to a selection bias, because I won't work at a company that doesn't behave that way. Life is too short for that BS. However, that I maintain employment at the expected pay rates while doing so indicates that there are a lot of companies who don't behave the way you describe.

All that said, I certainly don't deny that there are also a lot of companies who do behave as you describe.

ethbr1
The differentiator is market value.

Any company that does engineering "well" likely has slower growth and a smaller PE multiple.

Consequently, you don't hear about it nearly as much as the splashy, full-financial-speed-ahead companies.

Tl;dr - don't buy products or services from companies with high valuation stock prices... they're making that profit somewhere

navane
The point is not to have an excuse or shift blame, but just talk over the issue "tired of talking about $thing", and shift the conversation.
Smoosh
"Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein?”
scruple
In America, you actually don't fail when you're wealthy.
skeeter2020
It's too bad, because "I'm sorry; this is my fault" is the biggest diffuser of anger and best way to appease mad customers. Try it sometime; the other party goes from ready to kill you to apologetic themselves (if you're genuine). Unfortunately it's seen as a sign of weakness by people like Elon and his cult of impersonators and an admission of liability by the litigious crowd. If you can be strong, confident and ready to admit it when you're wrong you'll not only be successful in confrontational situations but also not a giant dick.
verzali
We once had a customer on a project that we'd messed up. I told the customer I was sorry about that and that I'd make an effort to fix the problem. I could see they were happy to hear that. But afterwards my manager called me at home and got mad I'd said sorry to them. His philosophy was never to apologize. Funny thing, later on that customer offered me a better paid position...
hliyan
The Japanese seem to have this in their DNA.
JohnFen
This is far from universal in the US, but it's certainly true in certain circles.
organsnyder
Then we need to change that. Those with power are best-equipped to effect that change.
skeeter2020
I think the problem is many of our senior leaders are just not that good, and the best they can do is model themselves on who they think is successful, like Musk. Then we get a predetermined outcome that repeats. Remember when every senior leader concluded that "Steve Jobs treated people like shit, but was very successful; therefore the path to success is treat people like garbage."? This was a global phenomenon for years. The "admitted failure is weakness" believe is much stronger.
2OEH8eoCRo0
Machiavellian
bayindirh
That's a interesting take. What I have heard from a very old friend of my father is the opposite:

> Knowing when to say thanks and when to say sorry is the key for success.

...and I have used this piece of advice since then, it paid me handsomely. Of course, this doesn't allow you to be shameless, on the contrary, it requires to stick to your values as a prerequisite.

I think what allows Elon to behave like that is how he can retaliate without any repercussions since he has tons of money and influence in some circles.

iancmceachern
Do you have sources?

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