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ecshafer parent
How many workers do we need? TSMC has 80k workers all in. 15-24 there is about 3 million US NEETs. I think that we could have a 10 year plan to get 80k people with EE/CE/NanoTech Eng/ChemEng/etc degrees. Make college free, or hell even a stipend for people to pursue "Critical Careers", heavily fund Phds in the same areas for US Citizens, and we will see workers with the skills.

nemothekid
This is the wrong way to look at it. The people in the US that you would want working in semiconductors aren't NEETs. They are at Facebook/Google/Jane Street/Citadel/McKinsey.

If I am a capable person working on delivering node improvements dealing with smaller and smaller challenges as the physics issues become quantum - I will eventually start to ask myself: why am I working on the hardest physics problems in the private sector for 150k/yr, when I can transition to Facebook or Jane Street, work equally (if not less) as hard and make 500k/yr?

The US has plenty of smart people. I'd argue more that the wealth inequality gap makes it _incredibly_ difficult to justify working for less, even in a field you love, when you can make top 1-4% of income doing something else.

ecshafer OP
The cost of assets (especially housing, schooling, and health care) is a huge problem, and your example is a poignant one. More funding could sway a few people in that pipeline to go towards semi-conductors, but the majority of workers aren't Jane Street quality, they are technicians and engineers doing lots of highly skilled "grunt" work.

Personally I think the other half of the problem, Big Tech paying so much might be solving itself right now, excepting really only the very very top.

beachtaxidriver
This right here.

When Silicon Valley was cheap enough to live in that people could casually start a company in their garage... Then people didn't have to relentlessly optimize for short term comp.

Today you have to work at FANG to afford a garage in the Bay area.

mrkstu
Look at the insane salaries/equity going to AI researchers. Those at the cutting edge of semi manufacturing/design are likely completely capable of reproducing the skills sets of those people- how do they not cut and run?

If the government has to provide the funds, so be it, make those jobs valuable enough and the skills will be there.

chatmasta
Is that true? I thought a lot of semi-conductor work is borderline blue-collar factory work and physical labor.

What you’re describing is in the R&D area and also not physically dependent on being colocated in a fab. So we should have an easier time finding that talent, although we’re probably underpaying them now, as you point out.

nemothekid
The most salient issue with Intel in the past 10 year was their constant delay of the 10nm node process. While TMSC was constantly pushing down the Node size, Intel struggled and ceded a lot of ground to AMD & Apple. At the same time Intel struggled to develop a competitive 5G radio, and GPU.

These are all downstream of R&D. If your fab cannot shrink it's node size, then you won't get the most profitable orders.

chatmasta
I’m not sure it would have made a difference if they hit 10nm faster. Apple has always wanted to make its own chips. Some marginal efficiencies wouldn’t dissuade them from investing in themselves. And it’s not like Intel was going to start a consumer PC business…
SlowTao
Yep, Apple buying PA Semi was an indicator of their intention all those years back. I suspect intel was just hoping they would fail at their ambitions.
SlowTao
Hey... that Arc GPU is the one silver lining to what intel is doing recently. Is it perfect, far from it but it ain't bad.
vel0city
It's both an example of them finally doing something right and a showcase of their failures. Who manufactures the chip in the end? Not Intel.
high_na_euv
Top semico ppl aren't way more than 150k

Also skills from one industry do not transfer that easily to the other

high_na_euv
Earn way more than 150k*

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