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knicholes parent (dead)
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yifanl
This presumes that you're okay with giving the real Elon your wallet but not a fake Elon, but why?
knicholes OP
It was very convincing. We thought it was a YouTube stream of the Starship launch. It paused with 40 seconds remaining, and "Musk" came on offering to reward those who support innovation and technology (BTC, in this case). All info here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lRbApgKT4U95zN0AYsPQqsLR...
yifanl
My problem with your statement isn't if its believable Elon came on stage or not, my problem is why would you trust Elon to pay you your money back, whether its the authentic or imposter Musk.
Jordan-117
Kind of missing their point there. Giving Elon Musk $15k in crypto based on some vague too-good-to-be-true "trust me bro" pitch is embarrassing even if the video turned out to be real.
FergusArgyll
The guy lost 15k there's no need to rub it in!
Jensson
Because it isn't worth real Elon's time to run these scams.
pil0u
I got scammed similarly (although $10, because I tested first), because 1. it was on YouTube, on a channel called "SpaceX" with verified logo 2. with hundreds of thousands of viewers live 3. with a believable speech from Mr. Musk standing next to its rockets (and knowing his interest in cryptocurrencies).

This happened as I was genuinely searching for the actual live stream of SpaceX.

I am ashamed, even more so because I even posted the live stream link on Hacker News (!). Fortunately it was flagged early and I apologized personally to dang.

This was a terrible experience for me, on many levels. I never thought I would fall in such a trap, being very aware of the tech, reading about similar stories etc.

dvh
I am flabbergasted that you both get scammed. I would understand if this was two years ago, but now? Do people really not know about these scams? I can already see down votes coming for victim blaming, but this is to me really shocking. Notice that there isn't "tell hn: don't get scammed by deep fake crypto Elon" because people who usually posts also consider this general knowledge. That's why it's so effective I guess. In a similar manner there will never be "tell hn: don't drink acid it will burn your intestines", the danger is so obvious that nobody feels the need to post it and because nobody is posting it, people get scammed. I don't know what is the solution to that. How should you tell people what everybody should be already knowing?

I remember being on a machining workshop and he was telling such an obvious things. Obvious things are obvious until they aren't, and then somebody gets hurt.

knicholes OP
Yes, I've heard about these scams. I've made deepfakes myself in the past. I've openly mocked people who have fallen for these scams. But this was sophisticated. Perfectly timed, very convincing deepfake, popular YouTube channels showing this stream during the launch, as if it were legit. The website was branded as SpaceX (the domain was obviously not, but I wasn't vigilant in the exciting hullabaloo of the impending launch). The instructions to participate were clear and easy to use.
bn-l
Hey it takes courage to admit to it. That’s admirable.
SXX
This. Dont be ashamed. Everyone can get scammed.

Reason people do is because we dont talk of risks often enough.

Kurtz79
Yes, thanks OP for sharing. I check HN front page mostly everyday and had no clue such sophisticated scams existed (I pretty much don’t use social media).

It’s easy to think “eh, it will never happen to me” but hindsight is 20/20. I impulse-donated to things like Wikipedia in the past and I’m susceptible to FOMO as most people.

knicholes OP
I am so deeply ashamed.
pil0u
To be fair, if that was only $10 it's because it was more of a "let's see if that works". It was believable enough to try this out.

The point of my message was to "tell hn: it could happen to people in this community".

knicholes OP
Yes, this is the exact same scam.
betterhealth12
@knicholes & @pil0u - I am working on a system that would prevent this exact same scenario. I appreciate the docs write up, given that you were personally impacted by this and are passionate about it, I'd love to speak.

I feel like the scale at which this is happening cross-internet must be staggering but because this is small-scale and un-reportable theft - who would the average person even go to, if they willingly sent the money, and they'd also have to get over the embarrassment of having fallen for it.

What really got me thinking about the scale of this is watching the deepfake discussion at 1:51:46 in this video (at 1:52:00 he says his team spends 30% of their time sorting through deepfake ads, to the extent he had to hire someone whose exclusive job is to spot these scam videos and report them to FB etc):

https://youtu.be/JMYQmGfTltY?si=ntuDgXuhMYj2fh5z&t=6706

fxtentacle
Plot twist: It wasn't a deepfake.

You sent your wallet to the real Elon and he used it as he saw fit. ;)

pjerem
That’s what they said : they have been scammed !
kamranjon
Would you consider writing a blog post about this experience? I'm incredibly interested in learning more details about how this unfolded.
knicholes OP
Yeah, here it is, along with screenshots. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lRbApgKT4U95zN0AYsPQqsLR...
qingcharles
I think the comment is a joke. Their bio is satirical at least :)
nerevarthelame
Their bio mentions their actual job and one project that is verifiably real. I think that the elements that seem satirical are real projects they're working on.
lucasmullens
I'm pretty sure the comment wasn't a joke? I saw the stream last week, it was very impressive use of AI, I didn't realize it was AI until he started talking about doubling crypto.

What about the bio is satirical? I'm pretty sure that's sincere too.

qingcharles
User has edited their bio now :)
knicholes OP
I didn't edit my bio. My projects are not satire. I'm just less ashamed than most, so I work on more "exciting" projects. I've worked extensively with generative AI, including video, myself. It was just that convincing to me in the moment. My regret knows no bounds. Luckily I earn enough this doesn't devastate me, but I really could have done some good with that money.
qingcharles
Yikes. In that case, please accept my apology. Your bio disappeared for a while off your page, but it's back as it was now.
paul7986
Well just go on this guy's lawn and you will find your answer lol
Imustaskforhelp
Please pardon me since I don't know if this is satirical or not. I'd wish if you could clarify it.

Because if this is real, then the world is cooked

if not, then the fact that I think that It might be real but the only reason I believe its a joke is because you are on hackernews so I think that either you are joking or the tech has gotten so convincing that even people on hackernews (which I hold to a fair standard) are getting scammed.

I have a lot of questions if true and I am sorry for your loss if that's true and this isn't satire but I'd love it if you could tell me if its a satirical joke or not.

bauruine
I guess it was something like [0] The Nigerian prince is now a deep fake Elon but the concept is the same. You need to send some money to get way more back.

[0]: https://www.ncsc.admin.ch/ncsc/en/home/aktuell/im-fokus/2023...

Imustaskforhelp
hm, but isn't it wild thinking that elon is talking to you and asking you for 15k , like bro has the money of his lifetime, why would he ask you?

It doesn't make that much sense idk

atrus
I remember watching the SpaceX channel on youtube, which isn't a legit source. AI Elon basically says "I want to help make bitcoin more popular, let me show you how easy it it to transfer money around with btc. Send my $X and I'll send you back $2X! It's very inline with a typical elon message (I'll give you 1 million to vote R), it's on a channel called SpaceX. It's pretty believable.

Granted I played Runescape and EvE as a kid, so any double-isk scams are immediate redflags.

Imustaskforhelp
Now I have never played runescape but have heard of this legendary game in references.

For some reason, my mind confused runescape with neopets from the odd1sout video which I think is a good watch.

Scams That Should be Illegal : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyoBNHqah30

empath75
It's only believable to the extent that I believe that Musk would actually run such a transparently obvious scam.
Jensson
Even Elon could lose his credit card or something, the story they spin is always something like that "I am rich but in a pickle, please send some money here and then I'll send you back 10x as much tomorrow when I get back to my account", but of course they never send it back.

Edit: But of course Elon would call someone he knows rather than a stranger, rich people know a lot of people so of course they would never contact you about this.

tantalor
That's an "advance fee" scam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance-fee_scam

knicholes OP
Not satire. He made a big speech about rewarding those who invested early in tech to move humanity forward and the benefits of the blockchain. It was extremely convincing. Three college grads and a medical doctor were all convinced.
runarberg
There are a lot of people on the internet, and every individual on the internet is in a unique situation. Chances are some of them are very likely to be persuaded by a scam which seems obvious to you.

Parent’s story is very believable, even if parent made this particular story up (which I personally don‘t think is the case) this has probably happened to somebody.

Imustaskforhelp
Ya maybe I didn't get their tone correctly which is why I was actually serious if they were joking or not.

If they aren't joking, I apologize.

jaredklewis
This comment is perfect.
latchkey
As always, it is the replies that make it worth it. GopherGeyser strikes again!
knicholes OP
You don't like the idea of GopherGeyser?
latchkey
What are you talking about? I ordered 10 of them.
knicholes OP
You couldn't have-- we sold out and are out of stock redesigning the board to be more usable during configuration and radio control.
latchkey
Oh shit, it is a real product? That's amazing.
michelb
These SpaceX scams are rampant on youtube and highly, highly lucrative. It’s crazy and you have to be very vigilant, as whatever is promised lines up with Elon’s MO.
rangerelf
Why would anyone give them any money AT ALL?

It's not like they're poor or struggling.

Am I missing something?

ablation
My mind is blown that people would engage in it at all, let alone need to be "vigilant". Amazing.
nickthegreek
it requires zero vigilance if you dont play the game.
lionkor
Not to victim-shame or anything, but that sounds more like more than one safety mechanism failed, the convincing tech only being a rather small part of it?
knicholes OP
Yes, more than one safety mechanism failed. Coinbase actually flagged the transaction, but I was so desperate to get it to go through, I went through their facial validation process to expedite the transaction. If I hadn't for just a couple more minutes, I'd have realized it was a scam.
prawn
Scams usually have an element of urgency so you don't stop to think.

Why did you and your graduate friends think an insanely rich man with a huge number of staff needed your financial help in testing transactions? This reminds me of those people that fall for celebrity love scams, where a rich celebrity needs their money - just baffling.

hansonkd
I think the biggest failure is on the part of the companies hosting these streams.

Its been a while, but I remember seeing streams for Elon offering to "double your bitcoin" and the reasoning was he wanted to increase the adoption and load test the network. Just send some bitcoin to some address and he will send it back double!

But the thing was it was on youtube. Hosted on an imposter Tesla page. The stream had been going on for hours and had over ten thousand people watching live. If you searched "Elon Musk Bitcoin" During the stream on Google, Google actually pushed that video as the first result.

Say what you want about the victims of the scam, but I think it should be pretty easy for youtube or other streaming companies to have a simple rule to simply filter all live streams with Elon Musk + (Crypto|BTC|etc) in the title and be able to filter all youtube pages with "Tesla" "SpaceX" etc in the title.

betterhealth12
What are your thoughts on this being solved by the negative of the situation? So, instead of having to vet every single stream, tweet etc to check if it's legit, basically the idea is that you shouldn't "trust" what you are seeing unless it's explicitly endorsed via a signature from the original creator.

Obviously, if it's coming from their official channels the "signature" can be more obvious, but a layer that facilitates this could do a lot of good imo.

lionkor
I feel like somehow that would lessen it, but not really help much? There are obviously people with too much money in BTC who are trying to take any gamble to increase its value. It sounds like a deeper societal issue.
jfoster
You are right that they might never be able to get it to 0, but shouldn't they lessen it if a simple measure like the one described can prevent a bunch of people from getting fooled by the scam?
AbraKdabra
I don't mean to be rude, but this sounds like natural selection doing its work.
umbra07
That's the sort of statement that remains extremely rude even if you try and prefix it with "I don't mean to be rude".
AbraKdabra
It's not rude if it's the truth.

Also he's a troll so...

knicholes OP
I'm pretty successful with an above average IQ. It was very convincing, along with three other college grads (one a medical doctor).
AbraKdabra
Shit happens bro.
amatajohn
the modern turing test:

am i getting scammed by a billionare or an AI billionaire?

UltraSane
On the balance of probabilities it being a scam is vastly more likely than Elon actually wanting to contact you. Why would Elon need $15k in bitcoin?

It seems like money naturally flows from the gullible to the Machiavellian.

pennaMan
hey, I got a bridge to sell you, was $20k but we can lower it to $15k if you pay in BTC
testplzignore
You're paying too much for your bridges man. Who's your bridge guy?
dkiebd
That wasn’t a bridge.
prawn
He would sell tunnels, not bridges!
77pt77
Was the bridge built by a genius like Elon though?
DonHopkins (dead)

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