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The latency of modern NVMe is what really blows my mind (as low as 20~30 uS). NVMe is about an order of magnitude quicker than SAS and SATA.

This is why I always recommend developers try using SQLite on top of NVMe storage. The performance is incredible. I don't think you would see query times anywhere near 20uS with a hosted SQL solution, even if it's on the same machine using named pipes or other IPC mechanism.


MortyWaves
Meanwhile a job recently told me they are on IBM AS400 boxes “because Postgress and other sql databases can’t keep up with the number of transactions we have”… for a company that has a few thousand inserts per day…

Obviously not true that they’d overwhelm modern databases but feels like that place has had the same opinions since the 1960s.

Numerlor
Then there's optane that got ~10us with. The newest controllers and nand is inching closer with randoms but optane is still the most miraculous ssd tech that's normally obtainable
robaato
But they've retired it??
adastra22
Optane is no longer available :(
Numerlor
They're still decently priced on eBay/AliExpress. The p5801x I got seemed to be completely new. though I have no idea how long the stock will last
kvemkon
I see an order of magnitude higher prices than 990 PRO / SN850X (and almost 9100 PRO / SN8100). While Optane seems to perform "only" 4 times faster in 4K Q1T1 (read) and 3-4 times faster overwriting the whole drive as quickly as possible (any use case for the later besides restoring from backup?). It looks like in less synthetic benchmarks the difference becomes more significant (only for the very last Optane P5800X).
Weryj
EBay!
teaearlgraycold
Eventually we'll have machines with unified memory+storage. You'll certainly have to take a bit of a performance hit in certain scenarios but also think about the load time improvements. If you store video game files in the same format they'd be needed at runtime you could be at the main menu in under a second.
bob1029 OP
At a minimum, we should be able to get everything to DRAM speeds. Beyond that you start to run into certain limitations. Achieving L1 latency is physically impossible if the storage element is more than a few inches away from the CPU.
devmor
Most new motherboards do already have the highest throughput M.2 connector very near the CPU.

The most recent desktop I built has it situated directly below the standard formfactor x16 PCI slot.

I think part of the reason why it's so close is also for signal integrity reasons.
alpaca128
> you could be at the main menu in under a second

That would be possible even on spinning harddrives as long as they're already spinning.

The fastest memory can't prevent the real reason games take so long to the menu: company logos. The Xbox can already resume a closed game within a few seconds, loading a simple main menu is trivial in comparison.

inkyoto
The separation into RAM and external storage (floppy disks, magnetic tapes, hard drives and later SSD etc) is the sole consequence of technology not being advanced enough at the time to store all of the data in memory.

Virtual memory subsystems in operating systems of the last 40+ years pretty much do exactly that – they essentially emulate infinite RAM that spills over onto the external storage that backs it up.

Prosumer grade laptops are already easily available, and in 2-3 years there will be ones with 256-512 Gb as well, so… it is not entirely incoceivable that in 10-20 years (maybe more, maybe less) the Optane style memory is going to make a comeback and laptops/desktops will come with just memory, and the separation into RAM and external storage will finally cease to exist.

P.S. RAM has become so cheap and has reached such large capacity that the current generation of young engineers don't event know what a swap is, and why they might want to configure it.

numpy-thagoras
I have a feeling (and it's just a feeling) that many SoC-style chips of the future will abandon Von Neumann Architecture entirely.

It's not that much of a stretch to imagine ultra dense wafers that can have compute, storage, and memory all in one SoC.

First, unify compute and memory. Then, later, unify those two with persistent storage so that we have something like RAM = VRAM = Storage.

I don't think this is around the corner, but certainly possible in about 12 years.

inkyoto
I am also of the opinion that we are heading towards the convergence, although it is not very clear yet what the designs are going to converge on.

Pretty much every modern CPU is a hybrid design (either modified Harvard or von Neumann), and then there is SoC, as you have rightfully pointed out, which is usually modified Harvard, with heterogenuous computing, integrated SIMT (GPU), DSP's and various accelerators (e.g. NPU) all connected via high-speed interconnects. Apple has added unified memory, and there have rumours that with the advent M5 they are going to change how the memory chips are packaged (added to the SoC), which might (or might not) lay a path for the unification of RAM and storage in the future. It is going to be an interesting time.

Weryj
I’m still buying old Optane drives for that latency when it matters. RockDB loves it
mhuffman
>Optane drives

This is the secret hack a lot of people don't know about!

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