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So I live in the EU where such supplements are supposedly safe. Article said that supplements that mix pepper and turmeric are dangerous. And the dose that was dangerous to the woman was 2000mg.

I looked on my table toward the bottle of turmeric my parents gifted me recently, saying they heard it was good and bought on a famous "health" store.

Bottle is: turmeric + pepper "designed for max absorption" and dose is 10000mg.


> Article said that supplements that mix pepper and turmeric are dangerous.

The article made it up. It's pure speculation. Hundreds of thousands of people take pepper+curcumin supplements and are totally fine.

What's likely the culprit here is an idiosyncratic immune response, or a heavy metal contaminated supplement. Of course, that's also speculative. Could be something she ate; could be that she didn't disclose a drinking problem.

The article reads like it has an axe to grind, tbh. "Oh no an unregulated racket!"

From the linked NIH page on drug-induced liver toxicity:

“Importantly, means of increasing the bioavailability of curcumin were developed using piperine (black pepper) or lipid nanoparticle delivery methods to increase absorption. These high bioavailability forms of purified curcumin were subsequently linked to several cases of liver injury and mentioned as a possible cause of outbreaks of acute hepatitis with jaundice in Italy.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK548561/

So no, the article didn’t make it up. In fact, you made up the claim that they made it up. Seems like you are the one with an axe to grind.

Probably over a million people have taken curcumin+piperine supplements that they bought via Amazon.

See, e.g.: https://i.ibb.co/Qvbdjqf7/amazon-curcumin.png

My impression as an author with books on Amazon is that you get one review or rating for every 20-30 purchases, and there are two products with "200k people have purchased multiple times."

And that's to say nothing of people who have bought such products via other sources, like Wal-Mart, etc.

All that, and you have "several" cases? That's not a lot. You need much stronger evidence to support any assertion that the nature of the product is harmful. (As opposed to contamination or chance effects.) If anything, I'd say that purchase and utilization statistics support the notion that the product is not harmful.

Damage is usually done in aggregate. Leaded gasoline didn't have people dropping like flies, but still caused significant damage.

Although it seems this needs more research, I'd be wary dismissing it out of hand just because people haven't been having an acute reaction.

That sounds crazy, are you sure you didn't misread the labeling?

When I checked the turmeric supplement I use. Which I buy in a reputable health food, and supplement chain in Norway. It is 40mg of turmeric, which according to the article is well under the acceptable daily dose. As far as I understand Norway follows the EU directives on this, but has some additional strictures as well. I wouldn't expect the difference to be this stark though.

Btw. the reason I use turmeric supplements is that I have a tendency to get persistent inflammation, and for me, the supplements seems to help with that. But if I didn't have this problem, I would not take it, and also, it isn't given that it works for you, even if it does for me.

Secondarily, both contains oxalate in proportions of 1% of black pepper and 2% of turmeric by mass, which leads to the formation of kidney stones.

It's worse in the US because the FDA effectively "washes its hands" of anything deemed a "supplement". In general, the precautionary principle is difficult to find in America outside of FDA-approved procedures, medical devices, and medications. Food and supplements are desperately under-regulated.

> "It's worse in the US because the FDA effectively "washes its hands" of anything deemed a "supplement""

The "natural" supplement industry lobbied for, and obtained, a law that makes them unregulatable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_Supplement_Health_and_... ("Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994")

> "The act was intended to exempt the dietary and herbal supplement industry from most FDA drug regulations, allowing them to be sold and marketed without scientific backing for their health and medical claims.[3]"

IIR, the FDA is legally forbidden from touching "supplements" - thanks to Congress, and the small army of supplement-industry lobbyists who tell Congress exactly what the law should say.
Yep. America contains insane, corrupt, dangerous contradictions.
Two points:

one, it's extremely likely that the article is incomplete and lack critical info like a presence of lead, or genetic predisposition.

Two: 10g is crazy. That's how you get kidney stones. Put so curcuma and black pepper in your meals. In EU, supplements (and recently, tea) are tested for heavy metal and plastic, and to see if the ingredient list is correct, but their effectiveness is not.

Are you talking about pills? Pills generally can only contain about 1000mg or a little more. Is the bottle suggesting you take 10 pills for a single dose?
The pills in the bottle look exactly the ones in the article, they are quite big.
How can we know the dimensions of the pills in the article's picture?

I've seen a bunch of pills that look basically like those, and the most they have held is around 1000mg.

Here are some pills that look just like the ones in the article's picture:

https://www.amazon.com/NatureWise-Curcumin-Curcuminoids-BioP...

They are 2250 + 500 = 2750mg in a serving size of 3 pills. So each pill is slightly less than 1000mg.

I was working at a small farm-shop at some point, we sold smoothies of turmeric and ginger, we had to label it clearly, and restrict sale for pregnant woman, young kids and the elderly because large doses can be dangerous. As far as I recall both are a natural blood thinner.

Edit: in europe

That's 10 grams?? Does that even fit in a pill?
For turmeric, it's probably an extraction which is equivalent to 10g of raw herb.
"heard it was good and bought on a famous "health" store"

I heard it is good, not trusting generic "healthy wonder medicines" in general.

I seriously doubt each pill/dose is 10 grams.
10000 mg is 1/3 ounce, or nearly a half teaspoon of flour. That's huge.
Tesco's Easy chicken korma recipe has 1 tsp ground turmeric https://realfood.tesco.com/recipes/chicken-korma-curry.html

I think I'd rather mine in Chicken Korma than some pill.

Why would supplements supposedly be safe in the EU? They are not regulated as far as I know? They can be sold anywhere. They often contain all kinds of inflated claims..
Not sure why this is downvoted, it's exactly correct. Supplements are entirely unregulated, and actually often not even sold as food/medicine "officially", but labeled as "collectible item". Light drugs are often sold this way too (kratom, HHC weed, etc).
Health claims are regulated. Not as seriously as medicinal drugs, but at least as good as food (which is also way more regulated in the EU than the US), under https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2006/1924/oj/eng
No, this is flatly incorrect. The EU heavily regulates food supplements under Directive 2002/46/EC.
So I took the trouble of reading the directive in question. It has a list of substances (like magnesium) which are covered by the directive. Turmeric is not on the list. Making it, unsurprisingly, unregulated.
Thats "Vitamin and mineral substances which may be used in the manufacture of food supplements" which is a different instruction, for a different directive.

See Article 6 and on: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2006/1924/oj/eng

Are you sure it’s not microgram (μg)?
Link to a photo of the box.

https://peixeverde.pt/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/curcumega-8...

Pretty sure that is a mg, not an μg

Looking online at that, the ingredients are confusing.

Composition: Per capsule:

Turmeric (equivalence) - 10 000 mg; Turmeric (containing at least 95% curcumin) - 350 mg; Turmeric (exact 5:1) - 150 mg; Black Pepper - 5 mg; Vitamin C - 80 mg (100% VRN ); Zinc - 10 mg (100% VRN )

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