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giraffe_lady parent
I think about this a lot actually. I grew up with glass milk bottles and paper meat packaging.

Even being able to estimate this is incredibly far outside of my expertise or knowledge, but I suspect for most products plastic is only cheaper because the externalities are not factored into the price. It seems totally possible to me that for a lot of things glass packaging would be cheaper than plastic if plastic were priced appropriately.

Other things I'm not sure. We could probably approach it differently, using different plastics and requiring re-use. It would be interesting to hear a genuine packaging expert's opinion on the balance point here, I doubt it's truly zero plastic for food. But maybe.

FWIW I think any non-glass non-plastic food packaging is also actually plastic. Paperboard and aluminum & steel cans all have plastic linings at least. I think almost exactly everything does these days. Glass being the one exception still.


akgoel
I grew up in a world where there was broken glass bottles everywhere - in parking lots, in playgrounds, on the street. I've never seen that externality of broken glass calculated.
birksherty
Have you seen plastic bottle/bags lying everywhere?
account42
Were those from milk bottles or from alcohol bottles?
archagon
At least you can actually see (and sweep) that detritus.
giraffe_lady OP
You’ve never seen glass bottle deposit requirements? Mostly solved this problem where I live.
archagon
To my chagrin, I recently learned that plain old parchment paper is made with plastic. In trying to avoid plastic as much as possible in the kitchen, I seem to be falling back to the ancient technique of slathering every cooking surface in butter or lard, and even that doesn't always cut it. (Try cleanly removing a cheesecake from a springform pan without the use of parchment paper or Teflon coating...)

By the way, even glass bottles aren't safe, apparently, unless the cap material is carefully vetted: https://www.hackerneue.com/item?id=44332912

giraffe_lady OP
Oh interesting about the parchment, I had heard once that it was silicone-coated paper and never verified that. It seems like it mostly still is.

At one point (my original training & first career was as a cook) I got interested in what was used before modern culinary parchment paper, which I'm sure you know is pretty new and totally unrelated to what was called parchment historically.

Seems like the answer was a huge array of per-application techniques though, with wax paper being the most similar to parchment but obviously not appropriate for a lot of things. Sometimes a layer of beeswax was used directly, melted into the pan and cooled; a lot of things that will absorb oil and stick don't do that with wax. Though others will stick to the wax and then it's a mess. Like I said per-application.

I believe cheesecake is a pretty new food but there are some similar/related dishes in slavic & french food traditions. For crustless custards the french moves have mostly been to just cut it out of the pan and then clean up the sides in a separate step. Either smoothing with a hot knife, or by applying some other intentional rough texture like crosshatching, or coating it in ganache or piped pastry cream or something to hide the damage.

For the slavic moulded easter cheeses (pashka) they lay wet cheesecloth into the pan first and the final food just has that texture on it along with the moulded pattern. Though those aren't baked, but some modern cheesecakes aren't baked either. I have also known pastry cooks that just ran the crust all the way up the side of the pan. Not quite the standard move and it changes the crust:filling ratio by quite a bit but it's not freakish either.

Sorry if this is an unwanted info dump, it's an interesting subject that I've also spent some time on in various ways over the years.

archagon
Thank you for the interesting info! For NY-style cheesecake, I've been attempting to use a paste made of shortening, oil, and flour to coat the sides of my steel springform pan: supposedly an old baker's trick. However, cheesecake removal is still not completely clean, though perhaps I'm doing it wrong. Beeswax seems like an interesting one to play around with, given that canelés are traditionally baked in molds brushed with beeswax.

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