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The tricky thing about justifying an X terminal is that it requires a nice graphics system and probably a nice cpu to drive that graphics system as well, so really the only thing you don't need is storage. basically it is hard to save money because you are buying most of a nice computer anyway.

PaulDavisThe1st
1995, I work 3 days a week for Amazon but need some sort of computing device at home when I'm parenting my kid. I have a nice SPARCstation in the office, and money is actually a little tight, so I'm not getting one of those for home use. I'd already used NCD X Terminals in my previous job at UWashington CS&E, so we got one of them, connected it via a 96k modem (the NCD's could do this, using SLIP), and I was able to dial into "the office" and have a relatively normal X session in my home.

OTOH ... we had already started using the first Linux system at amazon by that time, and a few years later, when a 25MHz 486 running Redhat became the first computer I actually owned (I resisted for that long!), the idea of an X Terminal seemed a bit quaint and limited.

roryirvine
The biggest saving by far was that they needed fewer people to administer them.

At the time, it was typical to assume that each sysadmin could look after a dozen machines on average, maybe twenty at best. So if each of those dozen machines could support 10-20 users on X terminals, then you'd only need a single sysadmin for every 250 users. That was a big cost saving vs having a dedicated workstation on every desk.

But in the end, DOS/Windows PCs had even bigger cost savings because most users could be expected to do minor admin tasks themselves supported by cheap IT helpdesk staff rather than expensive Unix greybeards.

smackeyacky
For a brief-ish period, Sun would happily sell you diskless Sun workstations that did everything an XTerminal did plus offered local computing.

Two of the universities in town had labs of them for students, all booted remotely, all the storage on a bigger Sun down in the server room, ugly coaxial ethernet everywhere and those funky blue/silver mouse pads and optical mice.

My boss at the time was pretty dark on Sun, because they sold her a lab full of Sun 3 workstations without telling her the Sparcstations would be released shortly afterwards.

bigfatkitten
They did that for quite a while, right up through the Ultra 5 era. Sun Ray was the successor.
justin66
A cursory look at Byte Magazine from September of 1987: a 233MB Priam hard drive for $2888 dollars. That's with a crappy RLL interface rather than SCSI.

If you think about a lab full of computers doing relatively simple Unix work, and how much money would be saved by just having a single drive (and all other things being equal, which they of course aren't), it's not trivial.

toast0
Plenty of Unix systems could be booted from NFS. Assuming no local storage, and that you need X, the question is, what's the difference in cost and capability between a X terminal and a diskless unix station that runs X? You've also got to consider costs to run a NFS server for your diskless unix stations vs costs to run a desktop server that backs all the X sessions.
The Sun Ray terminals they used at my university back in the early 2000s was very nice.
rbanffy
Sadly they used a proprietary protocol. I don’t think there is much software to make them usable today, unlike X terminals, which still can be useful daily drivers (if you don’t use browser based apps).
siebenmann
In 1989, the costs appear to have been significantly different, although on a casual search I don't see list prices for eg then-older Sun models like the 3/60. A brand new Sparcstation 1 (also 1989) was far more expensive than an NCD 16 or NCD 19, and a diskless Unix workstation would need more server support and disk space than an X terminal. Today is a different thing, but that's because PC prices have dropped so dramatically.
msgodel
It's similar to the issue plan9 terminals have. As long as you have a CPU with an MMU and some RAM (which you need a fair amount of for the graphics anyway) you might as well just run the software locally. All the peripherals are relatively cheap.
MisterTea
> It's similar to the issue plan9 terminals have.

To be clear: Plan 9 is not limited to terminal-server setups. It can function just fine as a stand alone OS.

> As long as you have a CPU with an MMU and some RAM

Those weren't cheap at the time. If you read the Gnot terminal presentation (early Plan 9 terminal) it is stated that they were cheap enough so a user could have one at home and one at work. It also stated that some things could run locally like the text editor and compute intensive tasks like compiling could be exported to a big expensive CPU servers. These machines had a few megs of ram and a 68000 CPU and monochrome graphics. The CPU servers were Sun, DEC, SGI, etc, machines that users could certainly not afford one of, let alone two.

zozbot234
You don't need an MMU-capable CPU to render remote graphics. You don't even need much more RAM than a local framebuffer, which for low resolutions/color depths is very little RAM.

Proving this point, there are VNC client implementations that can run on MS-DOS machines.

msgodel
You probably do need it to run Xorg though. I'm unaware of an X server that can run on DOS.
bitwize
DESQview/X
nothingneko
wouldn’t you just need enough to render a window? i’m not sure if everything is sent pre-rendered or not
somat OP
Think early 90's computers, and everything required to run a X server well. lots of memory, nice graphics, a nice cpu to move those graphics around. despite being technically thin clients, Dedicated X servers were not cheap.

It is sort of like the anecdote about an early sys-admin who traced down a problem with the new department laser printer locking up for hours to one engineer who had to be told to knock it off when he explained that he was printing nothing, But the printer had, by far, the most powerful CPU in the building so he ported all his simulation programs to postscript and was running them on the printer.

throw0101c
> Dedicated X servers were not cheap.

As a one-time uni sysadmin back in the day, our EE lab(s) we had students running Matlab on a Sun E3500 with the display going up on a diskless ~10 year old Sun SparStation 5s that we had lying around (originally from the early 1990s).

rbanffy
> so he ported all his simulation programs to postscript

That’s enough punishment in itself.

wang_li
>Think early 90's computers, and everything required to run a X server well. lots of memory, nice graphics, a nice cpu to move those graphics around. despite being technically thin clients, Dedicated X servers were not cheap.

They really didn't have that. Largely Unix workstations running X had a graphics stack that almost entirely software with no or little hardware acceleration. What made them workstations compared to PCs was the large "high" resolution monitors. The DEC lab at my university consisted of DECstation 3100s (16 MHz MIPS R2000 with 16 MB RAM and an 8-bit bitmapped display with no hardware acceleration.) The engineering department had labs with Sun and RS/6000 machines.

Commodity PCs were 386s with 4-8 MB RAM and monitors that would do 640x480 or 800x600 and video cards that would do 8 or 15/16 bpp. A great day was when someone put a linux kernel and XFree86 on a 1.2 MB floppy that could use XDMCP to connect to the DECs or Suns to turn any PC in the PC labs into an X terminal.

c-linkage
Ah yes, the old ray tracer in PostScript.

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