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godelski parent
This stuff seems to keep happening and the problem seems to be that it is ungovernable. How is someone supposed to fight this if they are not half as famous as Cliff?

bluGill
Look for other suppliers. For everything I'm interested in I can find some small shop that has real reviews and advice. it takes a little effort to find them but they know their product and so it is worth finding them-
godelski OP
I do mostly but off Amazon but that doesn't mean I don't understand that until more people do this these brands still have to be on amazon. You're kinda missing the point
squigz
What is the point? How do you think people should fight back against this?
ascii_wave
Legislation, imo
bluGill
Legislation is sometimes the only answer, but there are many unintended consequences to every attempt and so I consider it a last resort to be used carefully only when you must.
dleslie
My prime subscription expires this week. Perhaps the correct response to this systemic incompetence is to simply no longer give them money.
godelski OP
I dropped mine because frankly, you don't get much from it anymore. Pricing is often identical and frankly, you can just go to the store's site and 99% of the time get the same price
CliffStoll
Fame, alas, is of little use when you're a tiny seller. Indeed, Amazon's brand registry and seller interaction systems are built to minimize human interactions.
godelski OP
I'm sorry they did this to you. But you're famous in my book. Not just because the bottles either!
kevin_thibedeau
Take them to small claims court for each violation.
rendaw
That's the "This is the hill I die on" approach. From all the lawyers (family) I've talked to, this is such a massively large money and time sink, regardless of outcome, that you should never do it, even if it means fraud goes unchecked.
devnullbrain
Even small claims?
leviathant
I took a business to small claims over a $1500 invoice they decided they weren't going to pay. It took a year before I was in court, the judge decided in my favor, and I had to schedule a sheriff's sale because the bully I was dealing with refused to acknowledge that they lost.

I did get paid in the end, and there was the satisfaction of sticking it to a bully, but financially, it was not worth the effort.

rendaw
Right, that's what I was told...

I'd love to have a lawyer chime in and say "Go for it, it's easy and it improves accountability" though. Like if it only took a day and $100 it'd probably be worth it to me, regardless of the outcome.

account42
*for the first violation after which they refuse to do business with you.
Aurornis
Using your infinite time and money for legal representation to run a large number of legal cases in parallel?
Waterluvian
Time and money, sure. But small claims in many (most? all?) regions are specifically designed to not require a lawyer. I think in some you specifically can’t bring one.
hobs
In most yeah, you need a special dispensation, and you probably just want normal civil court stuff then - its kinda the point of small claims to not need all the extra stuff.
hippich
Ianal, but afaik small claims are for purely money claims. I.e. you have to prove to judge/jury exact amount of your loss. It works well in case of fighting over debt. But more abstract damages are likely outside courts jurisdiction...

On the other hand... It is cheap to try and see what happens, as long as expectations are right.

MikeTheGreat
I don't remember why I looked this up in Washington state, USA a while back (bad work by a plumber, I think) but here in WA I think there's also a rule/law that you can only take individuals to small claims court.

There's also a dollar limit ($4,000? Maybe 15 years ago?).

But yeah, by law you can't drag companies into small claims court. It's meant to settle minor things like your neighbor accidentally backing into (and damaging) your fence, etc.

WillPostForFood
10k limit in WA, and you definitely can sue businesses/corps in small claims.
justin66
Please cite a single example of that ever solving this problem.
ceejayoz
Take who to small claims court? Amazon?
kevin_thibedeau
Yes. They no-show and you get a default judgement.
ceejayoz
Why would they no-show?

They're far more likely to throw a couple hundred bucks at a local lawyer to show up.

dreamcompiler
In some jurisdictions lawyers are not allowed in small claims court.
ceejayoz
In many of those, the defendant can say "but I want one", and have it removed to real court.
hsbauauvhabzb
I’m not sure it’s wise to fuck with the legal department of a trillion dollar company even if you’re in the right.
grues-dinner
"Don't fight back when we fuck you or we'll ruin you".

The bigger the company, the heavier the penalties for fuckery should be. They should be the ones to live in fear, not the "little people".

hsbauauvhabzb
While I agree with you, good luck lobbying for that one.
labster
Bezos is thankfully not Elon, he won’t seek vengeance on you for literal nickels and dimes.
npodbielski
Maybe he just do not advertise how vicious he is on twitter. It does not mean that he is not vicious. Probably is, like every other rich person. You are not getting rich by being kind.
hsbauauvhabzb
No, but making an example of you isn’t a bad business move.
bmitc
Small claims is such a huge headache, though. It's far more expensive for anyone person than the company.
hippich
First time - when you learning all the details - may be. But it wasn't that bad. I represented myself vs insurance company with the lawyer. I did not get full claim amount, and could do better, but I got more than what insurance wanted to settle for.

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