Preferences

potholereseller parent
The actual title of the acticle is "Brad Lander Detained by Masked Federal Agents Inside Immigration Court".

Contrary to the current title here on HN, Lander was not arrested for asking to see a warrant; TFA states the opposite, "It wasn’t immediately clear what charges, if any, the mayoral candidate will face. A spokesperson for ICE didn’t immediately return a request for comment."

If an event is so important to know about, why fabricate such an important aspect of the event in this way?


We eventually changed it. Submitted title was "ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a warrant".

Submitters: please use the original title unless it is misleading or linkbait. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Avshalom
If we want to stick to the facts: we don't actually have any proof that these were federal agents because they refuse to identify themselves. All we actually know is that Lander was kidnapped.
BonoboIO
It’s only a question when people will draw guns because they understandably think they are getting kidnapped.

Look at the murder of the 2 democrats a few days ago by a fake cop.

speakfreely (dead)
dragonwriter
He was, in fact, arrested for asking to see a warrant, that is clearly documented.

The claims of assault that DHS fabricated and published on social media and via other channels after the fact to justify it, of which there is no evidence, before Lander was released without any charges are interesting in terms of understanding the current regime's propaganda propensity, but have nothing to do with explaining the events clearly captured on video.

apparent
CBS reports he was arrested for assaulting an officer and impeding a federal enforcement action, or some such thing.
So, asking to see the warrant is impeding a federal enforcement action? Like, following laws or rules is impeding action?
apparent
I don't think that's what they were referring to. From watching the video, I assume it was when he grabbed onto the fellow they were detaining and refused to let go.
Isn't an unwarranted action entitling you to resistance? I'm not american, so maybe you all know the answer...
apparent
If you witness police misconduct, you do not have the right to impede the police. Regardless, there was no way for him to form an accurate belief about whether misconduct was occurring. The agents have no duty to provide a warrant to a bystander, even if he is a government official.
nathanaldensr
It serves the narrative, which is more important than facts. That's why people often say we are living in a "post-truth society."
Simulacra
A couple of reasons:

Clickbait, Incitement, Selling something, or Bad Journalism

It happens all the time, but your point is absolutely correct. Media fabrication undermines confidence in the reporting.

tootie
The issue is the HN title not matching the actual story. The City headline is correct. And the HN headline has also been updated to be correct.
potholereseller OP
The other commenter mentioned "narrative", which is very relevant, because that is an important part of simulation (and your username)

Baudrilliard was careful to point out that simulation isn't a matter of fabrication; to simulate is to obscure the absence of facts, not to create false facts. A simulacrum is a symbol that obscures the fact that it refers to nothing; whereas a symbol, in centuries past, invariably referred to something, real or imagined. The resulting reality (or maybe "mindspace"?) is a construct on top of the real world -- a hyper-reality -- in which every symbol is a simulacrum; the only thing real in hyper-reality is that the symbols hide the absence of facts. This is why, again as the other commenter mentions, we appear to live in a post-truth society; we are fully living in hyper-reality.

>Bad Journalism

The guy who created the Pullitzer prize also co-invented Yellow Journalism.[0][1] There is neither good journalism or bad journalism; it's all simulation.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Pulitzer#Pulitzer_Prize

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism#Origins:_Pul...

wahern
> the only thing real in hyper-reality is that the symbols hide the absence of facts

What's a fact? Concepts like justice and fairness are fundamentally cultural constructs, and yet they've always been a core concern of human society. Setting up "facts" in opposition to "simulation" is no less a rhetorical narrative than what the article is pushing.

My takeaway from post-structuralism generally isn't that we live in a "fake" reality, but that the human experience--individually, collectively--is deeply complicated.

potholereseller OP
Baudrilliard didn't assert that reality/facts never existed; he in fact asserted that prior to the 20th century, there was plenty of correlation between symbols and facts/reality. His vision of the hyper-real is that it is detached from reality and it's facts; this is why I included "mindspace" parenthetically as an alternative word for "hyper-reality"; those operating in hyper-reality are physically in reality, but their actions appear to be based on another world, which they share through things like news media.

> post-structuralism

I don't think Baudrilliard can be categorized as post-structuralist or post-modernist, because "Baudrillard had also opposed post-structuralism, and had distanced himself from postmodernism."[0]

[0] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Baudrillard>

wahern
Camus didn't consider his views existentialist, but I consider them as such. Likewise, for me authors like Baudrillard and Benedict Anderson (political scientist) have written works that I think well capture the substantive gist of post-structuralism, even if neither saw themselves as part of that intellectual movement (and few if anyone else would relate Anderson to post-structuralism).

Plus, AFAIU Baudrillard turned into an angry, cynical, conspiratorial old man, kinda like a teenager who discovers the world is far more complex than the simplified versions he was taught, and then becomes angry at the world for being hoodwinked, as well as at everybody's complicity. IOW, some of Baudrillard insights are powerful, but I don't care all that much about how he chose to make use of them. (That said, the radical and exaggerated way he conceives of and presents things lends much of that power.)

I've never read any of Baudrillard's books, though, just several of his essays.

tpholland
I read all Baudrillard's books, back when he was relevant in the day. You've not missed much. In fact you seem more insightful than those who do have them all to set.

This item has no comments currently.