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>Connections never start as encrypted, they always start as plain text

Not "never", because of HSTS preload, and browsers slowly adding scary warnings to plaintext connections.

https://preview.redd.it/1l4h9e72vp981.jpg?width=640&crop=sma...


simiones
TCP SYN is not encrypted, and neither is Client Hello. Even with TCP cookies and TLS session resumption, the initial packet is still unencrypted, and can be intercepted.
haiku2077
simiones
Oh, right, thanks for the correction!

However, ECH relies on a trusted 3rd party to provide the key of the server you are intending to talk to. So, it won't work if you have no way of authenticating the server beforehand the way GP was thinking about.

EE84M3i
Yes but this still depends on identity. It's not unauthenticated.
ekr____
The situation is actually somewhat more complicated than this.

ECH gets the key from the DNS, and there's no real authentication for this data (DNSSEC is rare and is not checked by the browser). See S 10.2 [0] for why this is reasonable.

[0] https://tlswg.org/draft-ietf-tls-esni/draft-ietf-tls-esni.ht...

Ajedi32
GP means unencrypted at the wire level. ClientHelloOuter is still unencrypted even with HSTS.

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