Preferences

I kind of get why we don’t like this in email, but for SMS and Slack I’ve thoroughly enjoyed reactions. They’re a way to say “I received this and have a positive reaction to it, with no further communication necessary”.

Replaces a lot of useless typing I had to do to sound polite when saying “fine, no further comment”. And then getting a notification from the other party acknowledging my acknowledgment… yuck.


My friend interned at the FAA 20 years ago. He said the norm there was to write "Concur without comment." I thought that was brilliant. Of course, when I use it in conversation, no one gets my reference and thinks I am weird. But that is going to happen anyway.
I usually shorten it to simply "I concur", if no comment follows, it is a given. Maybe if you are using a lossy message format where a potential comment might get left out it would be necessary to make that part clear, but for most things it is a given.
ack
A friend you didn't understand me once said RST ACK. I lost it.
Concur without comment.
It should be entirely socially acceptable to respond to any trivial message with "ACKNOWLEDGED" á la Picard
Well that's what the reactions are for, right? Because then we have this sort of division between acks (and other reactions really) vs "actual messages". Combine that with specific emojis in certain social/professional circles and you've got yourself an extra layer of nuance in an otherwise tricky-to-navigate space!
I agree. Also, if the message proposes any action, it should be appropriate to reply with "Make it so.".
What is wrong with "Roger" and "Wilco"?

These are shorter. And remind me of the voice chat program Roger Wilco too.

Well 'ack' is even shorter, and the common form of 'ACKNOWLEDGED' for such use. I've seen & used both ack & wilco in a technical/software chat context.
I use this, though I find that many folks, including many technical folks, interpret it as an exclamation of distaste (as in, "agh! ach! ack!"), so it may pay to be judicious.
Nothing. "Make it so." isn't "I'll make it so" (aka. wilco) - it's "you make it so". "I agree with your idea, so you go make it happen".
Or space janitors.
Networking software engineers just say "ack".
Why do you need to respond at all? The phone tells you that the message has been delivered, and if you didn't ask a question or otherwise request a response why would there be any obligation to do so?
A delivery receipt, an automatic read receipt, and a human ack are quite distinct. The first means the device will offer it to a user who eventually looks. The second means the device expects that the user saw it. The third means the user definitely saw and understood it.

It's rarely obligatory (unless the sender literally requests an ack) but is more to offer a data point just in case it happens to be useful. In some cases it will definitely be useful, like to unblock something that can't proceed until the sender knows you've been briefed. For example, if I tell my kids they can stay out later than 10pm any night if I know about it, then even if they message me saying they'll be out late tonight, actually staying out late is blocked by my ack. Of course, this could just be turned into a yes/no question awaiting my answer, but that would be silly considering that I only say yes; they're not soliciting a decision from me, just acknowledgement.

> For example, if I tell my kids they can stay out later than 10pm any night if I know about it, then even if they message me saying they'll be out late tonight, actually staying out late is blocked by my ack.

Do you have an integration test for that in CI? That protocol sounds like the kind of thing which can break easily.

If I as a kid would hear that instruction "can stay out later than 10pm any night if parent knows about it" I would assume notification is necessary, but I would not return home early just because my parent did not ack it. And if my parents complained about that I would find them unreasonable.

Of course with your kids you might have been much more explicit about what you expect from them. Or who knows, maybe you are much more predictable in your response times than my parents were, so your kids might worry about you and call you if you don't respond anything.

I was just trying to come up with a scenario involving an obligatory ack (but not one in response to someone literally requesting a response every time), as a way of showing that while an ack is not typically obligatory, theoretically there could be a counter examples in the form of the ack-seeker twiddling their thumbs until ack, so to speak. I think you're right that these hypothetical kids would find it infuriating, and such protocol would work better if every ack-seeking message actually had a question ("11pm, ok?") making it explicit. It's just weird to pose a question if the answer is the same 100% of the time, and the only variable is timely receipt. How about this: "11pm, lmk" -- but the suffix is wasted keystrokes whatever it is.
Gmail now has emoji reactions too. Eg see the smiley face here: https://imgur.com/a/0cYSLMQ

They launched it last year[1].

[1] https://blog.google/products/gmail/gmail-emoji-reactions/

I agree. I'm not anti-reactions. I'm anti-reactions in email.
I don't even mind reactions to email inside a corp network where it can be handled gracefully, but sending an email like that outside onto the public internet is absurd.
Gmail has had this feature since 2023: https://blog.google/products/gmail/gmail-emoji-reactions/
You keep posting this over and over. So what? Is it supposed the be okay because Google does it too?
> over and over

I replied thrice because I was surprised to read commenters replies as if Outlook introduced a new unheard-of feature. Including an interop related question I thought about later, because I still can’t understand why emojis involve loading images.

I found the thread too late to develop a well researched post and so commented as I read. Sorry if it offends your sensibilities. But why are you policing how I comment? :-)

Also, why Gmail is important: It’s a fairly major email provider so it sort of matters when they deployed this. Two market majors having a feature usually implies others will follow suit — eventually.

> is it supposed to be okay

This assumes so much. I’ll turn this around. Why’s it not okay? I can’t see any RFC that forbids this. It’s not a feature I’m interested in but I think it’s interesting that email is evolving to match what users are used to on Slack, Teams, WhatsApp etc. And (software) evolution is something I’m very interested in.

I would love to disable that on my client. I never want to see reactions.
Honestly if someone were to send me a message that only required a simple acknowledgement, and that person hypothetically had disabled reactions, I would interpret that as that person not wanting their message to be acknowledged. But I suspect what you’re really wanting is typed acknowledgment?
I would probably just send the emote I would react with as a single-letter answer. If I have nothing to say beyond "thumbs up emoji" the fact that you don't like reactions doesn't, by virtue of your opinion, give me anything more interesting to say in return.
Most of the time I would be fine with the plain old read receipt + no other mail stating protest. The reactions have too different set between clients to convey enough meaning for me.
I don't want my messages acknowledged, it's just The Generals Problem. I assume you've read it and understood it, if you don't understand or agree, let me know, otherwise don't waste my time, I don't need people to say Thanks, you're paying me to do it
Although it seems the military metaphor of Two Generals' Problem which I assume you're referencing is incidental, it's ironic that in the actual military all communication from superior to subordinate must be acknowledged perfunctorily, at least in very disciplined services like the United States Marine Corps.

For example, if a sergeant says to a private "It's a nice day outside.", the private is obliged to respond, even if the statement is rhetorical. This leads to perfunctory responses, in this case it would be "Aye aye sergeant", or "Aye sergeant", or more casually "Er" or "Kill". You're not obliged to agree, just to acknowledge. Pretty similar to tapback responses in messenger apps and emails.

If this is a thing (never saw it in 20 years of active and reserve Navy service), it must be limited not just to the Marine Corps, but the ground side of the Corps, not the air side.

Sure, there's norms around how you talk on the radio, standing watch on the bridge, on chat channels for command and control, etc. But the rest of the time, the rest of the military talks to each other more or less like normal people with the addition of acknowledging relative rank.

Well there you go, I was ground side Marine Corps for four years. No comment from a superior can pass unacknowledged. Indeed we view the air wing as a place where standards are lax and you live an easier life.
The sergeant doesn't then have to open the acknowledgement and delete it/mark it as read, that's the difference.
> I assume you've read it and understood it, if you don't understand or agree, let me know

You’ve replaced “read” in the first part with “agree” in the second, and those are not at all the same thing. I can’t let you know that I haven’t read your message.

If a parent says to the other “hey, I’m running late, I need you to pick up Tiny Tim from school”, an acknowledgement is paramount even if you read, understood, and agreed to the message.

> it's just The Generals Problem.

That problem is concerned with an unreliable communication channel, which does not apply to the situation.

If the channel is reliable why would I need to know if you've read my message? and why would you tell me in another message?

The problem isn't the acknowledgement, it's the additional steps I have to make to acknowledge the acknowledgement to the email system.

Eg Whatsapp has 1 tick for sent, 2 for received, and turns them blue for opened.

Genuine question: why?
This question is how we get opinionated software that slowly-but-surely stops serving the user. "I don't like it" should be a perfectly valid reason for turning off a feature.
Perhaps it would be better to ask, how do you expect people to communicate to you those things that would be expressed as reactions?
When the medium is email, I’m not expecting a reaction as it’s async communication method and if they want to react it’s in a form of another email reply. Occasionally I need a confirmation or something and I ask for it in the email, if they just gave me a thumbs up it becomes uncertain if it’s a confirmation because I’ve learned that some people thumbs up everything just to acknowledge it and I later find out they just want to signal they’re online and on top of things but actually never read my message
Using words. Same as here on Hacker News.
Sure but you turning it off doesn't occur in a vacuum. Slack is a communication program. Either it then has to disregard reactions from other people, which is potentially a situation where someone will acknowledge your message and you will not be notified of that fact, or they then have to simply prevent reactions on any messages you yourself send, which is going to prompt a question from the coworkers using the space. Which brings us back to, "Why?"
Slack should add an option to disable reactions for people like this. However, since the sender is expecting their reaction to be seen, Slack should then replace the reaction with a text message matching the reaction: "Ok emoji", "Thumbs up emoji", "Smile face emoji", etc. so that the reaction doesn't just disappear and the intended recipient sees it.
feature of the software being software, sure, but when there's a human on the other side, it's different when it's within a small group context.
Except, by turning them off, you are therefore forcing people who want to communicate with you to adapt to your communication preferences because you have, by fiat, decided that you simply don't want to perceive the communication method they prefer. Coming to an agreement with others about how you want to communicate with them as fine, but communication is a two-way street, and so it has to be bilaterally negotiated by both parties, in which case it is very fair for someone to question your decision to unilaterally force everyone around you to change how they communicate by simply deciding to stick your head in the sand regarding one channel of communication. I find emoji reactions to be a much more efficient, direct and low boilerplate way of communicating, sometimes quite relevant and important information, and I would be extremely frustrated to the point of disgust if someone decided to simply turn them off and not perceive my reactions, thus forcing me to come up with polite non-phrases lile "looks good to me" to express the same reaction.

Also, I think this philosophy that all software must be infinitely configurable, so that it can serve every whim of every possible user, and that if it has a clear idea of what it wants to do and how it wants to achieve that, and sometimes that way it is designed to be used, it's somehow unethical or abusive of the user or something, is the fundamental sickness at the heart of open-source software design. It turns programs into unclear bloated piles of buttons and switches that are overcomplicated to use and impossible to properly quality assure and impossible to design in a coherent way. For powerful professional creation tools (CAD software, publishing, programming, etc) that will be the primary software used for decades by experienced and educated professionals who will want to optimize their workflow and who have the time to invest in deeply learning that one specific tool, then I think that philosophy is fine, but for random chat apps and stuff, it's just frustrating.

Some people pay per text message received. So, they have to ask each and every one of their iMessage-using friends to please not send these ridiculous reactions, because they are ultimately another text message which will cost money. If that counts as "forcing others to adapt their communication" well then I'm sorry, but their preference is my cost, so I don't think it's out of line to politely ask them not to.

Ultimately, this is something that I'd rather be handled at the carrier layer: I should be able to have my phone reject a text message and not pay for / receive it.

On the topic of configurability: Software should ultimately serve the end user. When a developer makes an undesirable (to a user) change to the software and provides the user no way to opt out of that change, it's serving the developer's interests, and it's doing a slightly worse job at serving the user.

> by turning them off, you are therefore forcing people who want to communicate with you to adapt to your communication preferences because you have

I don't see how. All it means is that I won't see the reactions. That's my loss. I'm not forcing anyone else to do anything differently.

If it actually begins to interfere with communications too much, I can turn them back on.

> it's somehow unethical or abusive of the user or something

For me, that's not the thing at all. It's more that configuration options often make the difference between software being useful to me and not being useful to me. That's all.

Old Man Yells At Cloud.jpg
Young’in needs constant positive reinforcement or they go all emo.jpg
Imagine thinking being generally sociable and polite is in any way, at all, a negative thing.
I don't like it in Slack as it gives another avenue for out of sequence communication.

When we think about email is that it is really explicit when there is something new to handle. There is a new email.

In Slack there are many channels with individual messages which can have reactions, and those individual messages can turn into threads which provides another place where you now need to actively scan to see if something is relevant to you.

This in general is something that bothers me with group communication that is non-linear. It's extremely hard to keep track of it all, and to catch up. Where do you start reading?

When we talk about email, it's much easier to filter for what is important. If your name is in 'To' or in 'CC' it's important enough.

Sidenote: the company I worked at encouraged people to put the group they're emailing into BCC, which makes discoverability as to which group the email was sent (and thus which group I am a member of) impossible to find out, as that information is purposefully hidden from me. But I digress.

In general I am a huge fan of purposeful communication, i.e. tagging someone when it's for them, vs throwing something out there and see who picks up on it or not.

Not to mention that I've seen cases where people get angry for you not having caught a message on Slack. If I wasn't tagged I might miss it. That's the reality of things if you're in so many channels.

Not to mention that leaving channels was frowned upon, as it is explicitly printed.

Even in messenger-type apps there's a weird setup. With iMessage, if you're in a group chat with yourself and other people (B and C): if C sends a message and B reacts to it, you still get a message about B's reaction to C. Drives me crazy in certain group chats I'm in.

Signal, for some reason, notifies of reactions to your message on desktop but not on mobile (at least iOS).

Replaces a lot of useless typing I had to do to sound polite when saying “fine, no further comment”.

We've had macros on computers since at least the 1980's. Just pick your standard acknowledgement and bind it to a hotkey, or a text expansion.

On macOS: Settings → Keyboard → Text Replacements…

This item has no comments currently.

Keyboard Shortcuts

Story Lists

j
Next story
k
Previous story
Shift+j
Last story
Shift+k
First story
o Enter
Go to story URL
c
Go to comments
u
Go to author

Navigation

Shift+t
Go to top stories
Shift+n
Go to new stories
Shift+b
Go to best stories
Shift+a
Go to Ask HN
Shift+s
Go to Show HN

Miscellaneous

?
Show this modal