Hacker Neue

Preferences
dpcx parent
This seems like it might be interesting to me if I already had some understanding of neural networks. Unfortunately for me, I can't even complete the RNN because there's nothing to even suggest what I'm missing when I connect the dots in the only way that the UI suggests I can.
sabrina_ramonov
Yeah, that was one of my concerns launching this v1. So in v2 I plan to add a little explanation for each neural network, perhaps along with an animated video showing what the final architecture looks like. Thanks for the feedback.
imdsm
At the moment it doesn't feel like a game but a demo or tech preview of the UI. For a game I'd expect to have rules or a goal, and then be guided through it as the complexity increases. If the goal of the game is to learn, this would be a great medium for it. Good luck with v2, I hope to remember and see it when I can more actively enjoy it.
sabrina_ramonov
The goal is to build the network in the fewest clicks. I agree and have noted many of the comments about adding more explanations for those unfamiliar with the particular network.
fernandopj
I've only been able to solve the RNN problem because out of frustration I tried every combination possible. It was 3 edges.

When I got to the second one without any stated goal or meaning, and it said "19 edges", I gave up.

jvanderbot
Uh, just to be clear - having an example network is one thing. But more importantly, explaining the blocks is what is being asked for.

If you play any game around building computers from logic gates, or any factory optimization game, the idea is to start with components, understand thoroughly their tiny single function, then begin to combine them in different ways.

So yeah - seeing a RNN would allow me to draw the connections, but what I want to understand (what would help me learn from this game) is to know what h(x) means. Before we even construct a network, we should have static inputs to play with those blocks to see what they do. Ideally, we should be asked to construct those blocks from other constituent parts (logistic functions? I dunno).

arecurrence
I suspect that's a bug because if you connect Xt to Ht twice... it succeeds.

Edit: This no longer repros and only the correct solution works now from what I can tell.

metadat
It won't let me do that.

It'd be nice if there were more explanation to prime you about the concept so you don't simply revert to guess and check.

jvanderbot
Yeah - you aren't "learning" anything. You're guessing-and-checking until it lets yo go. No idea what blocks do what, or why you're connecting them - which would be the basis for learning.
amelius
This would be great if it would train a toy-problem, and then of course it would only work if you built the right architecture.
WithinReason
Hint: The R in RNN stands for Recurrent.

What NN stands for is left as an exercise for the reader.

y-curious
This was very helpful.

All this game convinced me to do is to bury my head in the sand and hide from ML further.

straxsontaran
I had the same experience. A better description would be a tool to test your understanding of neural network architectures, not a tool to teach you about neural network architectures.
vixen99
True but if it was also adapted to try to meet the promise of the current title then that would be really nice.
sabrina_ramonov
I am happily taking all this feedback from HN to improve the learning experience, add more graphs for v2, thanks all!
ynniv
There are two outputs, two inputs, and three edges. The answer might not be obvious, but it's not a UI problem.
digging
> There are two outputs, two inputs, and three edges.

No, that's something you've inferred from your domain knowledge.

There is a set of dots labeled "xt" in blue, a set of dots labelled "ht" in purple, and a set of dots labelled "yt" in green. Additionally there's a scoreboard with "0 clicks" in blue, "3 edges remaining" in red, and "0 extra edges" in green.

With a bit of color matching I might assume "yt" maps to "extra edges," but that could be a red herring, because I don't see how "clicks" maps to "xt" or where red and purple come in.

It could also help if "RNN" had been defined, but it wasn't...

cuken
There is a help button in the top right that shows you need to focus on the circle node connectors to "solve' the problem.

At least for the first example:

You have a blue box labeled xt with a single node connector at the top. You have a purple box labeled ht with a node connector at the top and bottom. You have a green box labeled Yt with a node connector at the bottom.

The game tells you at the top you have 3 edges remaining.

Dragging a line from one node to another, releasing, and it turning green means you have placed a "correct" connection.

i.e. xt -> ht [bottom] will give you a green line.

Repeat until you have all edges solved for.

It's not spelling it out for you, but once you complete the "game" you'll at a very high level understand the moving pieces within the network, and the "flow" of data.

ynniv
I guess "decades of clicking things" is a domain one can be knowledgeable in? Usually boxes with draggable things on the top are inputs, on the bottom are outputs.
PeterisP
Hmm, my decades of clicking things lead me to assume a flow from top to bottom, so something with a connector on the bottom is a source that will output data through that connector, and something with a connector on the top is a sink that will accept input data through that connector.
dkersten
It flows in the reverse direction of what I’d expect (out is at the top, in is at the bottom, the opposite of any visual programming or diagram I’ve ever seen). It’s also represented in a way I’ve personally never seen ANN’s drawn. I thought you had to connect the dots in the middle and thought “huh? It mustn’t work on mobile” until I read the comments and tried again. And this is with decades of clicking things domain knowledge, and a small bit of neural networks knowledge.
slushy-chivalry
I didn't encounter the issue you described with adding an already existing edge though -- the counter stays the same

the answer to RNN is non-trivial, but perhaps Recurrent in RNN might be of some use

dpcx OP
Even knowing what the R in RNN stands for requires some pre-existing knowledge of neural networks. Which isn't something that's helping _me_ learn about them, particularly.

This item has no comments currently.

Keyboard Shortcuts

Story Lists

j
Next story
k
Previous story
Shift+j
Last story
Shift+k
First story
o Enter
Go to story URL
c
Go to comments
u
Go to author

Navigation

Shift+t
Go to top stories
Shift+n
Go to new stories
Shift+b
Go to best stories
Shift+a
Go to Ask HN
Shift+s
Go to Show HN

Miscellaneous

?
Show this modal