Preferences

One of the happier things I’ve done for myself lately, at the advice of this forum, was to get a rock-solid, dumb, black-and-white Brother laser printer. It sits there and just does its job and I never have to think about it.

Does anyone have any tips as to the white-goods equivalents? Fridge, freezer, laundry machines, that kind of thing?


If you can afford it get Breville. I was really shocked at how much better quality their appliances were when I got my first one. The microwave controls for example are 10x more intuitive and thoughtful than anything I’d seen before.
Ehhhhh. I got one of the fancy Breville toaster ovens because the (gas) oven in my apartment was so janky. If that's best in class, I'd hate to see the competition. The controls take 1–2 seconds to wake up, it makes the most horrendous beeping noises, the convection fan causes some funky resonance occasionally, the nonstick coating means you have to be careful cleaning it, the preheat timer is overly optimistic, the door spring is way too strong, etc, etc.

It works but I definitely don't love it, and I'm left wondering how hard it would've really been to remedy most of the annoyances. For the price (and given the reviews) I was definitely expecting better.

Speedqueen washers and dryers are simple and made in the US. Built like tanks. Double the cost of the cheap imports though.
Big note on this - Only the top loaders are available in the old-school "ultra-reliable" version that I think many want. Top loaders are more rough on clothes than front loaders. Many reputable repair techs claim that LG makes very solid and reliable front loaders which are more gentle on clothes than the speed queen front loaders.

I was dead set on a speed queen top loader and then my wife started showing me this stuff (specifically detailed tests showing speed queens top loaders being rough on clothes)

I've used both a top loader (currently a speed queen) and a front loader washer each for more than a decade. I have many t-shirts that are 20+ years old. Any wear from the washer seems negligible in comparison to the wear from actually wearing the clothes. There's no discernible difference.

But there's a HUGE difference in terms of ability to clean. If I'm out doing yardwork and I have a pair of jeans with deep mud stains on the knees the old style top loader agitators can clean them just fine. The front loaders cannot no matter how many times I run them through. I end up having to scrub the jeans between my knuckles in the laundry sink - moderate agitation breaks up the mud and it rinses out easily.

I suspect a lot of this "agitators are rough" nonsense comes from modern washers that don't use a sufficient amount of water. But the SQ has a setting to use the normal amount of water so it's a non-issue. Most analysis I've seen (eg: from Consumer Reports) refuses to consider top loaders with normal water usage settings -- the data is basically invalid. A lot of Consumer Reports analysis has this type of problem where the entire study is built on a false premise.

Front loaders might be fine if your clothes never get dirty and only need occasional light rinsing. They're really terrible for actually cleaning dirt.

The LG front loaders are very good at cleaning clothing. Wirecutter has done actual tests, and they seem to perform nearly as well as top loaders with agitators, but they don’t damage clothing anywhere near as much. My experience matches — mine cleans even better than the top-loader-with-agitator than I remember as a kid, and it’s much much better than the crappy commercial coin-operated top-loader I used to use.

(They do try to minimize water usage, which means that if you have the water soluble sort of mess on the laundry, you may need to select a “heavy soil” mode or add something wet and heavy to the load. The former takes two straightforward button presses, although LG sadly seems to have switched to capacitive “buttons” on newer models.)

Also, the speed wash cycle is genuinely fast and seems to work fine.

edit: What do you mean top loaders with normal water usage? Most top loaders want as much water is needed to cover the clothing. They gain nothing except longer cycle time if you use more water, and they don’t get clothing clean if you use too little.

I've used the LG frontloaders. They are not effective at removing muddy stains. They simply can't do the job.

Wirecutter doesn't publish their methodology, but every "tester" who has focuses on questionable metrics -- such as testing stain types that don't require agitation to remove.

In my experience most people who are happy with them don't have very dirty clothing to begin with.

Regarding normal water usage: It is not true that washers "gain nothing" by using more water. More water protects clothing under agitation and aids in removing dirt. From the SQ manual:

"Wash delicate items usually washed by hand on this cycle. A full tub of water is recommended (even for small loads) to allow the delicate items to move freely through the water. More water helps reduce fabric wear, wrinkling, and provides for a clean wash."

https://speedqueen.com/au/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2019/0...

This is the precise issue:

1) Regulators required low-water modes

2) Low water modes clean less effectively and are rougher on clothes

3) Front loaders are designed to work with low water loads, but still don't clean well

3) All modern washers are now terrible, except models that intentionally skirt regulations - such as SQ

High-water agitation is the best by far. The only drawback is increased water use - which is insignificant. The entire issue is a result of bad washer regulations.

There isn't anything that fundamentally makes a top loader clean better than a front loader per se.

And while I don't doubt your SQ top loader with a full agitator does an absolutely fantastic job when compared to a modern front loader you have a big apples/oranges comparison problem.

And if you live in Austin, I would be willing to have a cloths cleaning video made against my 25 year old kenmore/frigidare front loader. :) And that is simply because (as of a couple years ago when I checked) my front loader uses closer to as much water as a modern top loader. It puts a good 6" of water in the tub and has a much smaller capacity that most of the modern front loaders because it has a very small opening and a fairly deep tub but is also narrower front to back. Given the agitators are about the same as the water depth, the cloths can be fully submerged/agitated out.

I to do a lot of outdoor work/repair (including that stupid washer's bearing), and things get dirty/greasy/etc and that washer has consistently amazed me just how good a job it does, and as a bonus when I got it I was also amazed at how much longer it seemed many of my cloths were lasting. I have 25 year old shirts that still look fairly new. So IMHO that washer has been a bit of a miracle worker, which is why despite being used at much greater duty cycle than your average home washer for the past 15 years (think ~15-20 loads a week, don't ask), every time it starts to need another bearing set, I upset my wife by fixing it. The parts cost like $30, and now that I've done it a few times its a ~2 hour job. Although, last time I sorta re-engineered the bearing set after discovering some new bearing technology better suited to being in a wet/soapy environment like a washer, so its possible I may have significantly extended how long it goes between bearing replacements (aka hopefully I never have to do it again). It also seems to spin significantly faster than many of the modern front loaders, which is seemingly at least part of the problem with the bearing loads.

FWIW, we've had an LG front-loader for the last 5 years and have had zero issues. They do have a wifi capability to notify, but we've never connected them or felt the need to. If we moved, I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one.
We bought a Maytag set because it's capacity was larger than the Speed queens. I've never been more angry at a company. We threw in the towel and junked them they were so bad. Literally couldn't give them away bad. Apparently everyone I knew either already knew or trusted my experience so I couldn't unload them.

Now, we have speed queens and I no longer am using buckets to fill our washing machine, don't have to babysit it, it doesn't randomly jump in the air suddenly as it's gotten out of balance for the 4th time in the day. I would never willingly wish that upon someone.

buy the simplest devices you can. I believe whirlpool still makes some models in the USA. Evidently (according to reddit) never buy a Samsung or LG kitchen appliance. Whateve r you do get online (reddit and other places) and look for the specific model you're looking at, never buy on a whim, do research. You can eat out for a couple nights if the fridge goes.
Exactly, simple is good. Software is not simple. Internet-connected software is definitely not simple. If you want anything to work reliably long-term, avoid devices with remote dependencies that the manufacturer will deprecate as soon as they get bored of maintaining them. Anything you want to last more than 5 years should be able to work completely offline.
Yes, analog stuff can be built tough too. See the vacuum cleaners that still work after 50 years lol, because they were overengineered. That's not nearly as profitable, though. So bean counters (fail early, but after warranty period, fail often) are ever at war with engineers who'd rather make a good product for a fair price. I have heard good things about Bosche but yet to buy anything. I will definitely consider them. I'm not really afraid of things made in Europe or USA, unless internet research proves otherwise.
My uncle gave me his used (!) Bosch dryer 12 years ago. It’s outlasted every other appliance we’ve bought since then.
I inherited a 10 year old frigidaire washer and dryer combo, they are still going 10 years later, I haven't even had to replace any of the dials.
Software can be simple too. I haven't needed anything more from my email client, photo editing, word processor or file manager apps for close to a decade.

As far as I'm concerned these tools are feature complete and can be used without subscriptions that phone home constantly.

Samsung fridge, oven, microwave, and washer-dryer user here.

Only the washer dryer was able to get online, and it's the only appliance that had to be replaced after 4 years, but not because of that. The build quality was so-so, it had problems drying and repair was considered unreasonable (leaky hot air ducts, fast wear on the bearing).

The microwave spontaneously loses screws in the door though

> The build quality was so-so […] and repair was considered unreasonable

Par for the course for Samsung, in my experience.

I had an LG refrigerator that was a nightmare. I've had better luck since upgrading to a Bosche.

I second Whirlpool, though, when I remodeled, I donated my working whirlpool washer and dryer that I inherited that was from circa 1980 or so....

Best Buy always has a low-end unit for rental property. They usually last for a good long time.

I have a 30-year-old fridge that I would seriously consider getting repaired if it ever stopped working before I would buy a replacement.

I didn't get the advice do to this, but this is where I landed with my home printer needs, cheap Brother wirelsss B&W Laser Printer.

Unfortunatley for appliances these days, to get fewer options you actually have to go up in price. It took me a long time, for example to even land on an oven that was minimalistic with knobs that you turn to set the temperature and turn it on (overall the oven isn't simple enough, because it still has too many logic boards that were replaced three times in the first year, until they got it right).

I gave up my old gas stove that cost $400 new, worked for 25 years, without fail.

Even when I was at the new appliance store, looking at the fancy stuff, the sales guy was impliying short life span, and repair contract needs, etc...

+1000 for the B+W Brother laser printer. I've had it for years and it always prints when asked, no drivers or weird software, works from any device on WiFi. I've never replaced the toner.
That's going to vary by appliance. The appliance sales and repair shops that have youtube channels are a pretty good resource (Ben's Appliances and Junk, Yale Appliance, Boulevard Home, etc). But so is intuition.

Buy whatever you can get service for. This rules out Samsung and LG, but in a smaller area this might rule out some other brands. In general avoid LG unless you want a front loading washer, and avoid Samsung in general.

There aren't that many manufacturers. Bosch, Thermador, and Gaggenau; Whirlpool / Amana / KitchenAid / Maytag / Jennair; Electrolux / Frigidaire / Zanussi / Westinghouse /; etc etc etc. Ikea's all Frigidaire these days, and Kenmore you've gotta check the part number (typically Whirlpool or LG).

Dishwasher – pretty much the universal opinion is Bosch. The quiet part is that their current lineup has design decisions you may not like (no heating element, no grinder). And they definitely feel cheap. But they're quiet and USA made.

Washer – Speed Queen for a top loader, but again read up on the caveats. Whirlpool's commercial lineup is basically their consumer lineup from 20 years ago. They may be cheaper/easier to buy and service than Speed Queen. Lots of folks seem to love LG front loaders.

Fridge – top freezers with no ice maker are about as simple, efficient, and reliable as you can get. But Whirlpool's current top freezers are junk. Supposedly Whirlpool's more expensive fridges are still decent. Other designs (e.g. bottom freezer) are more complicated and will be less efficient. At the higher end Bosch's big side by sides with the dual compressors are supposed to be pretty solid.

Ranges – figure out what you want and go from there. Samsung is reportedly pretty bad with gas ranges, and obviously electronics aren't their strong suit either. Induction ranges will typically have more assemblies and fewer individual components to replace ($$$ to service). With induction the low end Frigidaires don't have any WiFi bullshit, but only the higher priced brands (and Samsung) will eschew the touchscreens.

Microwaves – American kitchens tend to feature those big hulking units hung right over the stove. But counter top models are waaay cheaper and all mostly the same guts.

Gonna sound very short through the corner, but german brands usually are pretty no bullshit. Also filter out anything that seems like it has a screen (or a more complicated screen than a simple LED panel) and doesn't need it.

Your fridge and freezer don't need any more screens than a LED panel telling you the current temperature and the laundry machine can make due just fine with a LED panel + some buttons and turning knobs.

A commercial fridge and a chest freezer.
I bought a chest freezer and regretted it. Not because it failed but because it's too easy to bury stuff. Sold it to a buddy after 3 years for 1/3 the original cost. He's still using it, but he's a hunter/fisherman, going on 10 years now.
Also if anyone knows a good brand for dumb TVs.
I think they’re basically extinct on the high end. Your best option will be to get a smart TV and never set it up with a network connection.

You’ll maybe want to do firmware updates now and then, but you can plug it in temporarily for those. It’ll still do more than you strictly want it to, but the most invasive behaviors will be off the table.

Alternatively you can get a huge computer monitor and use that as your TV. But there’s some issues with that approach. Monitors are designed for sitting closer up and may not have as good viewing angles.

I've got an LG OLED TV, it's connected to the internet and I use the apps, but don't seem to have any annoyances like voice control or adverts; it allows you to use it without agreeing to all the T's and C's, and if you don't agree to the ones about advertising or voice activation it just works.

YMMV, anecdotal, it might get patched out later, I don't know. I hope EU consumer and privacy laws are protecting me in this case.

So unfortunate that we allowed TVs to get to this point.
Maybe a decent short-throw projector?
A projector is not going to be able to compete with the picture quality of an emissive (i.e OLED) display.

This item has no comments currently.

Keyboard Shortcuts

Story Lists

j
Next story
k
Previous story
Shift+j
Last story
Shift+k
First story
o Enter
Go to story URL
c
Go to comments
u
Go to author

Navigation

Shift+t
Go to top stories
Shift+n
Go to new stories
Shift+b
Go to best stories
Shift+a
Go to Ask HN
Shift+s
Go to Show HN

Miscellaneous

?
Show this modal