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US schools are some of the best funded in the world. Everyone wants a scapegoat for this problem, whether it be funding, teachers, or administration, but unfortunately the problem is societal.

Test scores are probably declining because parents are more worried about the sexual orientation of cartoon characters rather than their child's test score, among other distractions. The root of the problem is that respect for education in the US is low.


I've received extremely mixed messages from Americans about how well funded education is.

On one hand, I've heard that a class of 30 kids gets almost half a million dollars of taxpayer money per year.

On the other hand, I've heard that teachers get a salary of about $50k, and have to beg on gofundme to equip their classrooms with basic stationary.

I really have no idea how to get these two facts to line up.

It's both. School systems are often heavily funded (but not always and not consistently, it varies by literal district). School employees are often drastically underpaid (but not always, and not consistently, it varies by district).

My local school district (generic midwest USA), there's a 17:1 teacher ratio, each student represents $13,011/yr in funding (so a single classroom gets $221,187 in government funding each year). Of that, the teacher in that room collects a salary of $40k to $60k W2 salary each year (plus benefits). Or, a teacher's salary is basically ~20% to 25% of the budget for that classroom, and the rest goes elsewhere.

And yeah, our teachers get literally nothing for their rooms, so they have to beg parents to donate crayons and tissue paper and pencils and basically anything else in their classroom, every year. (generally, each parent is expected to pitch in about $100 per student per year, in donate-ables to cover the stuff the district won't provide for teachers)

Often the per student funding number is skewed because of all the services a school provides, but not every student gets. Extra services may be specialized staff like speech therapists, occupational therapists, nurses, aides, bussing, or lunch programs. As an example, a special education class may have several aids, more specialized equipment and a need for more accommodating rooms. So it may not be a good method to take number of students x average cost = classroom budget.
At least in my state of the US and I’d venture to guess the rest of the US, a disproportionate amount of that taxpayer money goes to special education and other services.

So while the statistics may break it down to a half million per classroom, that classroom doesn’t actually see that money. It’s chewed up with special education and the bureaucracy.

It's pretty simple actually. US schools are run at the local level, not the national level. So different school districts (a district is usually the size of a town or county) get different amounts of funding.
Does it make sense calculating teacher salaries by year when they don’t work the full year, it’s actually significantly less when we take working hours into account maybe as low as 70% so it’s more like they’re paid a 70k rate with low hours and two months off.
Go ask a teacher about how many hours they work -- it's more than the 40 hours a week we in tech work, generally. And their summers are often full of required continuing education courses which they pay for out of pocket, much like many other professions which are desperately understaffed (see: counselors).
How many hours a week do they spend drilling leetcode or being on call. On maintaining their homelab because they need to keep up with the latest fashionable tech nonsense?

If you ask anyone, they'll tell you they're busy because that's the socially acceptable thing to say. If I'm honest, I don't do that much work (I tend to believe that's actually why we create and maintain all of these machines - so we don't have to work very much, but I'm apparently a disagreeable sort), but I still say that I'm keeping busy because if I said that I'm basically lazy and just want to meditate or watch TV most of the day away, people (particularly my employer) might take issue with that.

The extra hours a week teachers spend have to do with lesson planning, grading, etc. which is directly related to their job unlike leetcode or your homelab or whatever, those aren't equivalent at all.
Leetcode so you can get big bucks working as a programmer? Teachers put in extra hours because they see a kid in their class who will suffer through life if they don’t intervene. Compare your motivations to those of teachers, and leave the comparison at that.
During the school year, teachers put in significantly more than the 8 hours they're physically at school. Marking, course planning, etc take up quite a bit of time that teachers must put in outside of work.
Honestly it depends on the teacher. You're describing the ones who give a shit.
Salary varies a lot by location. I think median salary for teacher in California is ~90k. But teacher salary is not the only cost of running a school district. Multiple buildings to manage, maybe busses, various staff, etc…
> I really have no idea how to get these two facts to line up.

The proportion that goes to the management levels above the teachers keeps going up, instead of to the teachers or teaching materials.

Why is the sexual orientation of cartoon characters being pushed on kids though? Seems like something to be worried about if you're a parent.
The idea that a parent's ideological worries are something that a school should do something about is inherently problematic. Children are always going to have families with ideological differences from their peers. However, this isn't a reason to turn the school itself into the arbiters of those ideological differences.

The school didn't come up with the cartoon, others in society did. Children are going to talk about cartoons that they watch. My parents didn't always like the cartoons some of my classmates watched. Their solution was to not let me watch them, and instill their own set of values in me. They didn't ask the school to shelter me from the existence of other's ideologies.

I would agree with you but it's not that simple. In Toronto there was a "controversy" when the schools allowed parents to exempt their children from drag queen story hour.
I am not familiar with that situation, but I think my previous statement could apply in any situation. I'm not picking sides here.

There are ways to discuss sensitive and ideologically divisive topics in an academic and neutral way. The way religion and politics are covered in social studies courses is often a good example of this.

You don't have to pick sides to cover a topic in a neutral manner.

Well my point with that example was that in your case your parents wouldn't have had the option to not let you watch the cartoon, the school would have decided for them. It's not just about kids discussing what they've been exposed to at home.
> being pushed on kids though

What do you think this means? Is having a picture of me and my wife on my desk "pushing my heterosexual orientation" on my co-workers?

I'm really confused by what you think is upsetting in a cartoon with multiple Mom/Dad characters, also including a lesbian couple. Why is it ok to "push" one sexual orientation, but "worrying" to "push" another?

It's not confusing if you just remove the premise you're trying to assume. One of those displays has been a given in our culture for as far back as recorded history, the other is something new that is being imposed from above with unknown, potentially detrimental effects. So suspicion is warranted.
> One of those displays has been a given in our culture for as far back as recorded history, the other is something new that is being imposed from above with unknown, potentially detrimental effects.

This is patently and demonstrably false. Numerous cultures and societies have happily tolerated homosexuality.

Again, what is being "pushed" on kids? What are you suspicious of? I don't understand why you don't want to answer a very basic question.

I thought I did answer the question. But to be clear, what is being pushed on children is that homosexuality is normal and healthy with the subtext that they should experiment with it. I am suspicious of the claim that it is those things and that the claimants are doing nothing more than promoting tolerance.
Based on my own tiny "clinical trials" how much and how quickly children learn is proportional to the time spent working through problems together with their parents.
Yeah. My dad literally sits with me for extra Math and English materials (He is a Math prof and my mom is an English prof). I hated it but TBH that's probably I'm going to do to my son :P Of course to a lesser extend as I need to take care of my career at the same time. Back then once you are prof you are safe for eternity.
> My dad literally sits with me for extra Math and English materials…that's probably I'm going to do to my son

Yep, that’s the way to do it, and it can be fun, especially since it’s just helping rather than full on home schooling.

Most school curricula have different and concrete objectives (basically meeting aggregated KPIs) rather than “is the student actually learning?” Also teachers have a lot to deal with, and always have, tangential to actual teaching, like disruptive students.

I think the best part of the supplement is that most school work has no context (“will this be on the test?”). Especially in math, where you spend 12 years “learning the alphabet” and only after high school do you get to the fun parts, if ever. So at home you can actually see how the stuff you’re getting in school actually relates to the realm world, and can pursue interesting paths.

Yeah I agree. I'm probably going to do it differently as I hated that experience and TBH it doesn't benefit my study as he so wished.

I found the biggest problem of his approach is that he didn't care about figuring out my interest (TBF I didn't know either). The extra-curriculum study is mostly aimed for getting into a better school later so he first taught me Math in advance and then some extra for competitions. And even for programming he extremely hates gaming (to this day he thinks game developers are bad people, like people who do narcotics) and ONLY wants me to do competitive programming. Anyway I did not have any interest for anything he taught so it has been a painful drag for both of us until he kinda gave up when I reached grade 10.

Now that my kid is 3.25, I want to try something different. But I do find myself lacking the time or knowledge to prepare material for such activities. I want to expose him to a variety of activities after he reaches 4, say arithmetic and simple reading (so he can then spend more time reading books by himself), but I do not know how to approach teaching the topics. He is as impatient as a child can be and of course he is not interested in learning stuffs, which is definitely less interesting than, say, watching tanks crashing cars.

All in all, I know nothing about pediatrics education and need to know more before damaging our relationship as my father did back in the day. Neither do I have the mental energy reserve to burn candles to research on such topics. But I'll try.

Read the text books, or when little the handouts, to see what they are being taught. When they are big enough for textbooks it will probably shock you, especially history and the like. Anyway, just play with stuff related to what they are learning, and play is the key word.

Most math education is syntactic transforms, not understanding. There are lots of skill-appropriate puzzles in books and online you can do together so your kid can see that math can be fun. Same applies to other subjects — learning about US history? Make a trip to some local historical thing and when kiddo is bored just run around or whatever.

Quick way to get started: find numbers and letters in anything they are interested in. Kids love helping their parents and cooking with them using recipes and measuring stuff uses letters and numbers.
Personal attention matters. You can’t really outsource that.

While not scientific, it is a sentiment described in _Diamond Age_.

“What a child can do today with assistance, she will be able to do by herself tomorrow.”

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