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thesausageking
They're slowing burning through their VC money trying to make a business out of the hobbyist market while Cruise and Waymo have fully autonomous cars deployed in SF and are scaling up.
birken
As a very happy user of Comma, I think it is reasonable to say the company is going to fail, but that ignores that the product they created is still awesome. Comma is light years better than any built-in driving assist in any non-Tesla car. And it's comparable to Tesla for far less money.

The reason the company might fail is because their main thesis, being that car manufacturers would just license the self driving tech to somebody else (like Comma), never came about. Car manufacturers are just too conservative. It was a perfectly reasonable bet to make though. Unfortunately they ended up in the business of selling hardware and giving away software for free when they wanted to be in the business of selling software.

justapassenger
> As a very happy user of Comma, I think it is reasonable to say the company is going to fail, but that ignores that the product they created is still awesome. Comma is light years better than any built-in driving assist in any non-Tesla car. And it's comparable to Tesla for far less money.

I'm Comma user in one of my cars as well, and I do like it. But, when was last time you tried built-in driving assist in a Tesla-priced car?

Tesla's driver assist is nothing special nowadays.

birken
I've logged a lot of miles of Comma in a 2023 Hyundai Ioniq and 2022 Toyota Prius Prime, and the built in driving assist of both cars is nowhere near Comma, both in terms of steering and accelerator/brake.

Things that Comma handles seamlessly that the built-in cruise in both cars will not:

- Full stop and go

- Sharp turns on the highway that require slowing down (both built-in adaptive cruise modes will gladly just drive you off a cliff at 65 mph)

- Situations where the lane lines are hard to see or are implied

- Non-highway driving

- Not requiring me to touch the steering wheel every 20 seconds

Maybe those things work in higher end cars (though I'd say the Ioniq is a fairly high-end car), but then again with Comma you get it for ~$2k in a ton of cars instead of having to buy a luxury car.

It is true that if you are on a highway, with clear lane lines, the steering assist in both cars is certainly a lot better than nothing, but it's just not nearly matching the reliability and versatility of Comma in any sort of imperfect situation.

> - Not requiring me to touch the steering wheel every 20 seconds

In many countries doing this will void your insurance.

> - Sharp turns on the highway that require slowing down (both built-in adaptive cruise modes will gladly just drive you off a cliff at 65 mph)

While it's probably given that this will happen, it's also an infrastructural failure. Just place a limited speed limit sign way before the sharp turn, or fix the road so it doesn't make a sharp turn.

porphyra
Car manufacturers ended up using Mobileye though...
That wasn't precisely by choice though, IIRC.
snovv_crash
Comma didn't exist yet.
porphyra
No, they are recently choosing to go with Mobileye too. For example: Porsche announces collaboration with Mobileye from a couple of weeks ago:

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2023/company/porsche-mobiley...

havercosine
I don't mind bit of skepticism. But let's see: Comma is actually used by people in their cars to achieve some degree of self driving. He actually shipped something that works! The idea is ambitious as well as commercially interesting: car manufacturers don't reinvent wheel for every component but rely on OEMs to help them out. This was a similar bet. That way it is wildly more successful than hundreds of other undifferentiated yet another social/lending/flavour of the season apps.

It takes guts to put out such bold bets in writing. We've seen many (senior!) tech people sneer at George's at times naive optimism. I actually find the "how hard could be" attitude refreshing against "no no it is complicated you can't do that" gatekeeping. Because otherwise we will end up using big-tech for lack of alternative. It is not the critic who counts and all that..

Retric
The scale of investment is wildly different. $5.57M in actual revenue vs $18.1M raised isn’t that far from a viable product and positive ROI for their investors.

Cruse and Waymo have invested billions, they need 10’s of billions in annual sales or their project is a failure.

> Cruise and Waymo have fully autonomous cars deployed in SF and are scaling up.

Is that it? SF only? After billions invested? There is a laundry list of those that tried and failed especially with burning an insurmountable amount of VC money even with billions of their own money.

Lyft: Scrapped and sold their self-driving project. [0]

Uber: Scrapped their robot-taxi project and sold it off. [1]

Zoox: Once valued at $3BN, acquired by Amazon for $1BN after nearly going bankrupt and is still using specialised cars for self driving only in SF. [2]

Cruise: Acquired by GM and still using specialised cars for self driving in SF [3]

Drive.ai: Ran out of money and almost bankrupt and acquired by Apple. [4] No where to be found on the roads.

Waymo: Same situation as Cruise, but Google keeping them alive.

Comma has lasted longer than these over-valued companies and is already in lots of consumer grade vehicles beyond SF today and not in specialised cars and taxis unlike Cruise and Waymo who are still stuck in SF [5].

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/04/26/business/stock-marke...

[1] https://www.npr.org/2020/12/08/944337751/uber-sells-its-auto...

[2] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/26/amazon-buys-self-driving-tec...

[3] https://fortune.com/2016/03/11/gm-buying-self-driving-tech-s...

[4] https://techcrunch.com/2019/06/25/self-driving-startup-drive...

[5] https://techcrunch.com/2023/05/18/cruise-waymo-near-approval...

chpatrick
Anyone can call a Waymo robo-taxi right now in Phoenix and it works really well. It's a modified electric Jaguar. That's a pretty big difference from the others.
OOPMan
Good thing everyone lives in Phoenix and SF XD
chpatrick
If it works in Phoenix there's no reason it wouldn't work in a large part of the US, they just haven't rolled it out yet. Proving that it works is the hard part.
pankajdoharey
Comma's hypothesis could be correct and its licensing is also very flexible, if they do succeed in making an android equivalent of SDC(self driving), they will be used by all these car manufacturers eventually.
are you trolling? comma is the only profitable company you mentioned while its the opposite for way and cruise, both of which are not scalable.
> both of which are not scalable

which is the critical element everyone is in denial about, even to the point of saying Tesla has a long way to catch up.

there are just 3 possible options:

1. They are living in a sf USA big city centric bubble. 2. They are very easily influenced by marketing. 3. They are just trolling.

Comma is a product you can buy all code is opensource. All others is just a service, where people could theoretically just be diving remote and they sell it as self driving.

4. they're in the "everything Elon is evil" bubble and refuse to entertain any challenges to this belief
bagavi
Waymo and Cruise have burnt through money like no one else. They want to make their own cars, thier own Ai chips/lidar, their own self driving tech. Delusional at best, malicious at worst. They made a hard SW problem into hard HW+SW problem. They are zombies unless some magic happens in the world of nn (which is not unlikely tbh)

Whereas comma is taking the right approach of a nimble team, iterate fast and ship a working product (even if not L4-5), get cash flow, next milestone.

Retric
Cruise is part of GM, so saying they are going to make their own cars is hardly delusional.
sammywater
So what? Dont the vast majority of companies that take VC funds.. burn through it before generating profit?

George is courageous, inspiring, and highly intelligent. He stands for what he believes in. He stands up for himself and his beliefs, and talks back to powerful people.

How many tries did it take to invent scalable electricity, or the light bulb?

George Hotz is frikkin awesome

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