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A simple rule for negotiations is that whoever has more information has an advantage. That means if workers don’t know the exact pay scales they are almost by definition at a disadvantage while the company has the full info.

To the people who think they negotiated really well and want this to be kept from their coworkers I say that a lot of you have been lied to and you are making what everybody else makes or even less. I still remember a guy proudly telling me about his great contract and his face when I told him that I made almost twice as him.


I've found a few years ago some people were making more than me at generally lower skill and abilities. So I started giving my other colleagues my past pay history and raise %s and it turns out they were getting significantly less pay. I'm glad for them to be brought up so that my party doesn't seem drastically higher as well when I all for mine.

I've changed job positions and let them know my previous pay since they are in that role now. Sadly I think their pay is generally smaller since I negotiate until I embarrass myself and my friends are women and I understand that the negotiations are less aggressive from that population in general.

I made 12% more than them at the same job role.

And at my current I'm also about that much higher than the bottom paid (a guy internal promotion).

I asked for 12% raise citing my usefulness to the team as a whole. Still waiting on the results of that. It seems I negotiate in a very clumsy manner but still getting better results than those I know about.

Possibly those that get paid less share their pay, but those that get paid more do not?

This sort of illustrates why I dislike talking about salary. This person went from super happy with his life to unhappy, and nothing is any different in his life. I understand that this unhappiness is part of what drives income equality, so I’m glad more people are having these conversations, but I was once in a job for a number of years, where for several reasons I just needed to weather the storm, and I certainly didn’t need to know what my coworkers were making at the time.
So basically — if you're getting exploited, ignorance is bliss?
If you're happy with what you're getting, are you being exploited?

Personally: I've reached the point where I don't want to know what my colleagues make. I know many of them make significantly more, but that's fine. In some cases I'm outright happy for them.

Exploitation is a tax that your boss (and their boss) is hiding from you. Literally just taking right out of your pocket before you ever even see it, just like a gangster would do.
“If you're happy with what you're getting, are you being exploited?”

Yes you are exploited if you don’t know what would be possible.

No, just that a sense of happiness is a relative measure. Do you think you'd be happier earning 50K when everyone else is earning 25K, or 100K where everyone else is earning 200K? Everyone believes he is the latter, but in reality, over time, the former group people probably are happier, I wager.
It’s not really about the dollar amounts. It’s the fact that my employer is using an information asymmetry to arbitrage my labor.

Here’s an analogy. Say I wait tables at a restaurant. If I discover my boss has been skimming off my tips, I’m going to be upset — even if I was perfectly happy with my pay before I learned that.

Not comparable. That's outright wage theft, not informational asymmetry.
The more information you have the better a position you'll be in - always. If you have an extremely stressful event in your life then making sure that finances isn't also a stressor is important for your mental health and, by extension, your physical health. A perfectly valid way to react to being underpaid is to say "the job security is worth this difference in salary while I sort out this other problem in my life" - but in that case it's you that's making the choice that the difference is acceptable. Everyone staying mum on salary only causes companies to be able to get away with exploiting introverts and people with low self-confidence.

If salaries are public it isn't a super rare case where friendly coworkers will help to build you up to asking for that promotion.

> The more information you have the better a position you'll be in - always.

I agree with this 90%. More information is very useful most of the time, as long as it is high quality.

However, given that we humans do not have infinite processing power or infinite emotional capacity, there are obviously limits to the amount of information we want to have at any point in time. And these limits will change depending on the situation and our own internal state.

This is why I don't discuss pay with anyone. I don't want them to feel bad, and I certainly don't want to feel bad myself.
And this is how companies keep you in the dark, and maintain the information asymmetry that gives them the upper hand in negotiations.
Don't tie your self-worth to your income.
Are you by any chance ex Google, ex Facebook, multi millionaire tech lead?
You wish! Just a lowly contractor at the time.
> A simple rule for negotiations is that whoever has more information has an advantage

Outside of some progressive companies, what jobs exist where everyone's salary is public at the time of negotiation (when hired?) and people can negotiate salaries 2x or more for the same position?

Do you think you deserve to make 2x what your colleague does?

Did you tell your colleague why you think you deserve 2x their salary?

It’s not my job to justify my salary to colleagues or reduce. Once they have the info they can ask for more money and management has to justify why one person is higher paid than the other or raise pay. In this particular case I was actually charging less than the contracting companies that often kept 70% of that money for themselves.

But the main point is that knowledge is power. Ignorance may protect your fragile ego from inconvenient truths but it’s not bliss.

> and management has to justify why one person is higher paid than the other

And when they can't, do you think they will raise your coworkers salary to match yours, or bring yours down? (I know what I'd bet on) Persons who benefit from that asymmetry of information may not even know it. I'm not saying you are one of those people, but if your first reaction wasn't "Yes I deserve to get paid 2x my coworker", then I suspect you won't continue to be in a transparent system.

You also skipped over my first question in my previous reply. I am interested in your feedback on that. You claim that "knowledge is power". Can you point to an industry or large segment of jobs where this sort of salary negotiation (such as yours) takes place in a transparent system. Alternatively, can you point to any study/research that backs up your claim?

"Can you point to an industry or large segment of jobs where this sort of salary negotiation (such as yours) takes place in a transparent system. Alternatively, can you point to any study/research that backs up your claim?

"

One example is CEOs and top execs. Their salaries are public and have shot through the roof in the last few decades. Pro sports also comes to mind. It's much easier to ask for more when you know how much your peers are making.

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